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Old 06-24-2008, 12:45 PM   #1
jtfacts
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Default LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

I am declaring this right now, if this guy goes in the top 10, that GM and organization is incompetent. At 5'11", this guy is a backup at best. He is not that athletic, he can't shoot that well and most of all, he is SHORT. He will not be able to guard any first string point guard in this league. Why waste a lottery pick on a backup? I see many mocks having him go in the top ten. Are they serious? I don't care if a team needs a point guard, this guy is not the one.

The college game and the pro game are different in two primary aspects. Short guys and Very Big Guys. Short guys can thrive in college game but very rarely does that occur in the pro game. Very Big Guys (See my post about Hibbert) can't really post and back a player down in college, but it happens often in the pros, and since the no flopping rule will be enforced this upcoming season, expect to see it more often.

Now someone might bring up Jameer Nelson. Let me tell you this, Orlando will not go anywhere unless they START a taller point guard.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

I won't bring up Jameer Nelson, but I will bring up Damon Stoudamire.

I think Augustin is the goods. He's the 2nd best point guard in this draft behind Derrick Rose. I don't give a shit if he's "short". Knocking a guy because he's a couple inches too short is weak anyway.

I saw him play in person the first week of the NCAA tournament and that kid is no joke.
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

So he won't be as good as Paul or Williams, that doesn't mean if he's taken around 7-10 that he's a bust. 4 would be high in my mind but he is a legit lottery pick. I do agree he's a little overhyped by some though and will just be a good player nothing great.
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfacts
I am declaring this right now, if this guy goes in the top 10, that GM and organization is incompetent. At 5'11", this guy is a backup at best. He is not that athletic, he can't shoot that well and most of all, he is SHORT. He will not be able to guard any first string point guard in this league. Why waste a lottery pick on a backup? I see many mocks having him go in the top ten. Are they serious? I don't care if a team needs a point guard, this guy is not the one.

The college game and the pro game are different in two primary aspects. Short guys and Very Big Guys. Short guys can thrive in college game but very rarely does that occur in the pro game. Very Big Guys (See my post about Hibbert) can't really post and back a player down in college, but it happens often in the pros, and since the no flopping rule will be enforced this upcoming season, expect to see it more often.

Now someone might bring up Jameer Nelson. Let me tell you this, Orlando will not go anywhere unless they START a taller point guard.

They said they same thing about the Chris Paul standing around 6'0-6'1"
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
Orlando will not go anywhere unless they START a taller point guard.

STFU.

You have no idea what your even talking about
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

TJ Ford at the predraft measurements...5'11" 162 lbswith a wingspan of only 5'11.5"

2007-2008 stats
12.1 ppg
6.1 ppg
1.1 spg
47 fg%
88 3fg%
in only 23.5 MPG!

2006-2007 stats
14 ppg
7.9 apg
1.3 spg


Just so happens to also be from Texas. DJ could have very similar numbers to TJ. DJ has been the best floor leader in college basketball the last 2 years. Nobody's expecting him to be the next great point guard in the NBA but with how many busts are in the lottery, finding a solid role player at the end of the lottery is just fine.
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Posterize246
TJ Ford at the predraft measurements...5'11" 162 lbswith a wingspan of only 5'11.5"

2007-2008 stats
12.1 ppg
6.1 ppg
1.1 spg
47 fg%
88 3fg%
in only 23.5 MPG!

2006-2007 stats
14 ppg
7.9 apg
1.3 spg


Just so happens to also be from Texas. DJ could have very similar numbers to TJ. DJ has been the best floor leader in college basketball the last 2 years. Nobody's expecting him to be the next great point guard in the NBA but with how many busts are in the lottery, finding a solid role player at the end of the lottery is just fine.


Yes, that's why Toronto is trying to get rid of TJ Fraud, I mean Ford. Let's look at history, shall we. In the last 15 years, only one NBA champion has had a starting point guard that is less than 6'0" (Avery Johnson). Most are 6'1" or higher and these guys usually have long arms for their size.

I am bold enough to say this right now. If Chris Paul is the number one option on his team, HE WILL NEVER WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. I look at the example of Allen Iverson. Yes he made the finals one time. That's it for him. He will never get their again, unless he takes a back seat to someone else and become a secondary player.

Many times the NBA is enthralled by the short player that is highly skilled. You can't base your team on these players because historically they can't bring home the championship. I am not just talking about short guards, I am also talking about people like Charles Barkley (short PF) who Phoenix focused their team on.
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Jerryd Bayless is going to be a much bigger bust, some people think he is going to be an allstar.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfacts
I am declaring this right now, if this guy goes in the top 10, that GM and organization is incompetent. At 5'11", this guy is a backup at best. He is not that athletic, he can't shoot that well and most of all, he is SHORT. He will not be able to guard any first string point guard in this league. Why waste a lottery pick on a backup? I see many mocks having him go in the top ten. Are they serious? I don't care if a team needs a point guard, this guy is not the one.

The whole problem with the NBA draft is that people over analyze the measurables and underestimate what really matters. At this point everyone is close to the same athletic ability, so what really matters is intelligence, desire, toughness, attitude, and heart. As cliche as it sounds it doesn't matter how tall you are if you are not a willing defender you won't be a good one.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
Yes, that's why Toronto is trying to get rid of TJ Fraud, I mean Ford.
I knew you would bring that up. Ford is being shopped because the Raptors already have a player who was playing at all-star level while TJ was hurt. TJ doesn't want to be limited to the bench and thats why he's being shopped. Has nothing to do with his size. He's defied all the odds against that.

Quote:
Let's look at history, shall we. In the last 15 years, only one NBA champion has had a starting point guard that is less than 6'0" (Avery Johnson). Most are 6'1" or higher and these guys usually have long arms for their size.
Also in the last 15 years, only 2 point guards I can remember were instrumental in their teams winning the championship. Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups. Other than that Avery Johnson, Jason Williams (who is also 6'0"), Kenny Smith, Derek Fisher (only 6'1"),and Ron Harper were just role players on their respective teams. So you can't say that a "bigger" point guard has been vital in leading their teams to the finals.

Quote:
I am bold enough to say this right now. If Chris Paul is the number one option on his team, HE WILL NEVER WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. I look at the example of Allen Iverson. Yes he made the finals one time. That's it for him. He will never get their again, unless he takes a back seat to someone else and become a secondary player.


Chris Paul is a pass first pg. He only averages .5 a point better than David West. Had he had better scorers on his team, he would not be the #1 option on his team. Also Iverson already is the 2nd offensive option on his team. Was AI supposed to go back to the Finals playing backseat to Glenn Robinson or Keith Van Horn? C'mon now

Quote:
Many times the NBA is enthralled by the short player that is highly skilled. You can't base your team on these players because historically they can't bring home the championship. I am not just talking about short guards, I am also talking about people like Charles Barkley (short PF) who Phoenix focused their team on.

Miami was led to the championship by a 6'4" shooting guard (yes Shaq was there,but who was the finals mvp?), Dennis Rodman was short for a pf. I think your really getting away from the topic here. Who in the hell said DJ Augustin was going to bring home the championship? All DJ has to do is be a piece of a winning team. I wouldn't say Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Kenny Smith, Avery Johnson, and Jason Williams "brought home the championship". All he has to do is be a good role player. Nobody's expecting him to be Chris Paul or Allen Iverson or the "short player that is highly skilled". In the late lottery, you hit the jackpot if you get a player like Paul. All they want him to be is a 13 and 8 kind of guy, and nobody would be mad at that.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

By the way...6'1,180 lbs Isaiah Thomas has 2 rings.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

I admit, I have a big bias against short players. Chris Paul is an anomaly, but like Steve Nash before him, I expect the 2008 - 2009 season to be different for Paul. More people will go at him offensively than ever before. People say Steve Nash doesn't play defense, but that is not the case. His short height prevents him from adequately holding a bigger point/shooting guard. Chris Paul puts up extreme stats and I do give him credit for it, but ask Kobe what it is like to have to hold another scorer for 40 minutes and then try to score yourself (see the 1st two games of the Finals when he was holding Ray Allen).

TJ Ford is 6'0" and Jose Calderon is 6'3" - Hmmmmm. Why is it they perfer Jose over TJ again?

Allen Iverson is the number one scoring option on Denver! Carmelo is number 2. Look at shot attempts and pts/game. Iverson leads on both accounts. Get it right Posterize, your slipping.

My point on D.J. Augustin is this; Why waste a high pick on someone so short? He will not be able to defend 99% of the players in the league. Basketball is an Offensive and DEFENSIVE game. D.J will be sorely lacking on the defensive end.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:22 AM   #13
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtfacts
I admit, I have a big bias against short players. Chris Paul is an anomaly, but like Steve Nash before him, I expect the 2008 - 2009 season to be different for Paul. More people will go at him offensively than ever before. People say Steve Nash doesn't play defense, but that is not the case. His short height prevents him from adequately holding a bigger point/shooting guard. Chris Paul puts up extreme stats and I do give him credit for it, but ask Kobe what it is like to have to hold another scorer for 40 minutes and then try to score yourself (see the 1st two games of the Finals when he was holding Ray Allen).

TJ Ford is 6'0" and Jose Calderon is 6'3" - Hmmmmm. Why is it they perfer Jose over TJ again?

Allen Iverson is the number one scoring option on Denver! Carmelo is number 2. Look at shot attempts and pts/game. Iverson leads on both accounts. Get it right Posterize, your slipping.

My point on D.J. Augustin is this; Why waste a high pick on someone so short? He will not be able to defend 99% of the players in the league. Basketball is an Offensive and DEFENSIVE game. D.J will be sorely lacking on the defensive end.
This is the last time I'm arguing with you because your research and basketball knowledge is lacking. Did Iverson average more ppg get more shots than Melo last season? Yes. Did he also get 5 mpg more a game and play in 5 games more than Melo last season. Yes. Don't you think that had something to do with more shots? The ppg difference is minimal (.7ppg) so you can throw that out the window. Melo is the main guy in that offense. Watch a couple games for once instead of typin in google. And didn't I already state TJ Ford is being shopped because he's not interested in sharing time with Calderon? Would the Raptors really want to make the point guard of the future someone who has a history of back problems when they already have a solid pg on their team? Calderon is the smarter player as far as running an organized offense. Height is the last thing that comes to mind in that discussion. Have you watched Calderon play defense? It's nothing special, even with his added 3 inches over Ford. You're overrating height tremendously dude.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

Height is overrated. Augustin has long arms and a good standing reach for his size, which will help offset his lack of height in the NBA. If you think people are expecting him to be an All-Star, than I agree that he will be a bust. I think that most people expect him to be a solid starter or very good backup, and you could do much worse than that with a late lottery pick.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:04 AM   #15
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Default Re: LOTTERY BUST - D.J. Augustin

I think desire and basketball IQ is just as important as height. Augustin took a very average team to a much better record than expected last season. He is a playmaker who can score and pass and usually makes the right decision. I think on the defensive end you should have pointed out that those guys who helped take their team to the championship are usually good defenders.

Honestly, though, the only think that seems to be a trend to look into is that most championship teams have a good big man and a good gaurd. Augustin with the Celtics could win a championship. Plus, lets say he goes to Indiana at 11, who should they take that really gives them a better chance at a championship? Using your thought proccess, Indiana might as well draft JaJaun Smith because he is 6-2.
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