Questioning the Answer: Can a team win big with Allen Iverson?
Jul 28th, 2007 by NBAsians
By Gov Daswani
In the midst of its 2006-2007 campaign, the NBA and its millions of fans took a blistering halt as it witnessed one of its most exciting and breathtaking players demand a trade from his once beloved Philadelphia 76ers. After an entire decade with the celebrated franchise, Allen Iverson could no longer handle General Manager Billy King and his pee-sized brain. No one could really blame the answer as he has never been handed the championship caliber squad that many believe he deserves.
However, does any potential championship caliber squad deserve the great A.I.?
The answer is a resounding NO. Allen Iverson is a poison to any team that intends to play as one.
The point guard has indeed revolutionized the way the game has been played over the past few years. They have been able to capitalize as the NBA has enacted rules that have favoured the vertically challenged. And there isn’t a better example than 2-time MVP Steve Nash, two thriving futures in Chris Paul and the feisty Deron Williams, and the all around happy Frenchman Tony “The Housewife” Parker.
Despite the bullish market for point guards, the “Shoot First” little man has just never been able to click. In the case of Allen Iverson, i’ve become utterly lost with regard to the position he actually plays. One day he’s a one and the next he’s pulling a Kobe Bryant shoot-fest. These midget scoring machines just can’t win. Just in case you need proof, allow me to present the following “Scoring Guards”:
Stephon Marbury. Starbury entered the League the same year as AI but until now, he still has not been able to shake off the perception that his teams just can’t win. From Minnesota, to New Jersey, and Phoenix, his former teams improved so much more the season immediately following his departure from them. He openly clashed with Larry Brown a couple of years back as the Knicks suffered its most embarrassing season in its storied history. To make matters worse, he even made the ridiculously absurd claim a couple of years ago that he is “the best point guard in the NBA”. What a joke. But what the hell, he sells cheap shoes!
Steve Francis. How many of you can still remember 1999 Draft night when Francis was drafted number two overall by the then-Vancouver Grizzlies? Breaking out his best prima donna pout, he demanded a trade and thus landed in Houston. Despite obvious offensive talents, his team just couldn’t get into the playoffs until the arrival of Yao Ming helped bring more balance to their offense. His inclination to dominate the ball, favour flashy plays, and pout when things don’t go his way got him traded to Orlando, where just a season and a half later, he wears out his welcome for exactly the same reasons. Soon after his quick stink, oops I meant stint, with the Knicks (in a backcourt that needed 2 basketballs and a frontcourt that needed an eat-all-you-can buffet), his nickname was changed from Stevie Franchise to Stevie Franchise-KILLER.
Convinced?
Now one might defend Allen Iverson and claim that he is one hell of a competitor. Yes, he is an animal. He drives the lane with no regard. Not giving a **** for elbow swingers like Cheap Shot Rob, flop artists like Manu “Baldspot” Ginobli, or even nut-grabbers like Reggie ‘The Fondler’ Evans. He has been referred to as one of the top 30 players in the history of the sport. That’s what makes A.I. the ANSWER. What do I think? Make way for the my initial attempt at a controversial sweeping statement…
Allen Iverson is the among the most overrated players in the history of the sport.
He stands 6′O, weighs 165 lbs, and has averaged a whopping 28 points per game over his stellar career with Philly. How then, does a diehard Laker fan like myself, have the nerve to mock this midget with the heart of Spartacus?
Over decades as sports fans, we’ve witnessed a number of athletes who’ve worn their heart on their sleeve. However, in the next section, you will notice differences in heart that cannot be noticed by the untrained eye of the lay sports fan…
A). Heart of a Lion - King of the Jungle. Michael Jordan. No explanation needed. Lance Armstrong. None needed. Boris Becker. Nothing. Bret ‘The Hitman’ Hart. Nada. Michael Corleone? Hell no!
They were all masters of their respective domains. Nothing further.
B). Heart of a cripple - When every sentence concludes with ‘for his size’, you know there’s trouble. Iverson’s incredible! For his size. Tough! Strong! Tenacious! For his size.
The other kind of heart applies to undersized, congenitally and physically challenged athletes. This is where special olympians come in. That rare category where will power rises above all obstacles.
Nate ‘Tiny’ Archibald. Tyrone ‘Mugsy’ Bogues. Rey Mysterio. The grief-stricken women in A League of Their Own. The Mighty Ducks in Mighty Ducks 3. Wheelchair athletes. One-legged sportsmen. And finally, The Answer, Allen Iverson.
They are the underdogs. The men and women that compete no matter what the odds are. And if I may steal a line from the good people at Converse, they are those that fall seven times, get up eight.
For Category B, winning isn’t everything. And for A, it is the only thing.
This is where Iverson comes short. For Over a decade as a premiere player in the NBA, Allen Iverson has been considered among the best of his generation. What do I think? Iverson had one outstanding season. He’s played 11. He can’t win. But he’s great for his size.
I got a lot of luv 4 A.I. I think he has one of the biggest hearts in the league but he will never win a championship. It takes more then one player to win it all and A.I. does not know how 2 play with others after all of thoz years playing with all of the nobodyz in phily.
I don’t know what your beef is with AI, but you don’t seemt o give the little guy enough credit.
First of all, AI never demanded a trade, rather a change within the team. Billy King was sitting on a mediocre team and did nothing in the offseason to improve on their chances to compete. The Sixers have constantly been cutting costs every year when they claimed their number one interest was winning a championship. King decided the change they needed to make was Iverson.
Was it his time to go? Yeah, its been long enough for him to sit here idly. The only season when they did his talents justice after Larry Brown’s departure was bringing in Jim O’Brien and and playing a shoot-or-die scheme that was one of the best in the league. However, Billy King loves the thought of defense and didn’t like O’Brien as a person (aw) and went with Mo Cheeks.
AI has shown he can be troublesome off the court, but his ability on the court is unquestionable. Yes, he is the hardest working player on the court who wears his heart on his sleeve. NOT for his size, because he plays bigger than his so-called six foot frame since being drafted.
I also think you came up lame with your examples of scoring guards. Only two examples of struggling players while you passed up current combo guards like Baron Davis, Chauncey Billups and Sam Cassell. Former greats like Bob Cousy, Pete Maravich and Hal Greer. More often than not, you need someone running the point to score to keep you in the game. Thats why Deron Williams was great this post-season. His talents scoring the ball gave opposing defenses nightmares and opened things up for other players on the court.
Maybe you’re a disgruntled Lakers fan looking to pick a fight. But AI is one of a handful of talents that you will never see in the NBA again. Every season they say his body is breaking down and he can’t continue driving into the paint with such reckless abandon. Appreciate it while you can.
“You are a fucking Hater bro. Allen has been to the Playoffs, Has been to the chip, and won every award a player can win. He has never been on a great team. Never has he been on a team with a great supporting cast. But then again That is why you write blogs because you dont know shit about basketball. CLOWN!
A.I. is on of the fiercest competitors in our sport…u need more guys like him out there…he did well with denver..i didnt see him and melo having any issues…watch next season when AI’s assists sky rocket..and Denver stuns every1…KMART..MELO..CAMBY..AI..JR SMITH…pretty damn good line up…way better than anything he had in philly…AI is not overrated and actually could use a little less haterism from overrated undereducated journalists.
AI has never been on a decent team because he can’t play with anybody!!! All those years on the Sixers, they couldn’t bring in premium talent because AI would hog the ball too much and would be reluctant to give up the ball. Remember a time when Stackhouse was touted as the next MJ? About 1 and a half years later after teaming with Iverson, Stackhouse got the boot. AI just can’t play with other superstars, until now, but he had to swallow a lot of his pride and get moved. But his time on the sixers, he was very selfish. His cast was weak because it was too hard to find somebody that could compliment him. Oh, and that one year they went to the finals? Fluke. Good coaching by Larry Brown. Weak eastern conference- They had to struggle against a young Bucks team in order to reach the finals. THE BUCKS! The last time the Bucks made the finals was when Kareem (or Lew back in the day) was on their team. Iverson is a super talent, but like Daswani is saying, his team can’t win.
A.I. led his team all the way to the finals in 2001. A sixer team with a starting lineup of Snow, Iverson, Lynch (who even got injured in the playoffs, Tyrone Hill and Mutombo) No other player would give the team more than 12 ppg ( besides Aaron Mckie who comes off the bench) and still, they are the only team that won a game against the eventual Champion Lakers who are 15-1 in the playoffs on their way to Back to back Titles. Steve Nash has Amare and Marion, Mcgrady has Yao, Kobe has Odom, KG is not even in the playoffs the last three years, but none of them has led their team in the finals! Ofcourse Kobe won with Shaq but now he is demanding a trade in a team that he says he lacks supporting cast. So what can you say about Iverson did?! Not great?! Common!!! Even if you say that he just had one good seaon, that says a lot. Me might not win an Nba Title anymore but He has a heart of a Champion. Haters like you who doesn’t appreciate the game don’t have a right to post a blog!!! You’re just a fan who knows nothing!
mr daswani, AI has heart and hes a one of a kind player. ive been warching him since heis days in G-town and he is one tough sob! i have great respect for that guy! i dont think you can compare him to marbury and stevie francis! by the way please putting wrestling stuff with the nba cuz wrestling aint a sport its entertainment! your just pissed at him for stepping on ty lue i the finals!
This is one of the best articles I have read. This is what’s wrong with the NBA. The selfish players who always look for their scores get unbelievably hyped by the media and many of the untrained eye of the lay sports fan (as you said). Ben Gordon (Bulls) is a similar type of player (though he is less talented than AI) who is more interested in filling in box scoring number than playing defense and doing little things to help the team win. You know what, it works. He is always hyped by their media and hailed by some of their fans as Air Gordon and his camp has already started talking about that he deserves a big contract because he scores more. Gordon’s poor defensive ability and (more troubling) lack of effort on the defensive end really hurt the Bulls’ chance to win big and they can forget about winning championship.
Everyone shut up. Iverson will win a championship this year. End of Discussion. He’s better than Jordan.
To Charles Mclaughlin:
*First of all, AI sat out a good 10 games for no apparent reason. If that’s not enough reason to claim “Demanding a Trade”, then I don’t know what is.
*Granted, Billy King is an idiot and a talent such as Allen Iverson does deserve much better than he received during his decade stint with the Sixers.
*I watched Allen Iverson live for the first time 7 years ago vs. the Lakers and it was a site to see. He is among the few players in the league besides (Barkley, Bird) that we will not likely ever see again. You have a 6’4 rebounding champion, Bird is Bird, and a 6’0 scoring champion. Never again.
*I discounted guys like Chauncey, Cassell, Cousy, and Baron Davis because even though they are prolific scorers, we all know that they are or were strictly point guards. Also, none of them were ever the obvious first option scorer on their team. Francis was a first option with Houston and Marbury was arguably the unanimous best scorer on some of his teams.
*Granted, I am a Laker fan and I am disgruntled. And yes, creating argument and maybe even initiating a little heat was my intention with this article.
Okay, your argument is flawed. Isiah Thomas and Nate Archibald were BOTH “midget scorers” as you so eloquently put it. And guess what? Not only did they win championships, but they are considered to be among the greatest NBA players of ALL TIME. Allen Iverson is more talented than either of them. He just never had a good team. Simple as that. My friend. Watch the Denver Nuggets this year. That is all I have to say.
To ME and Jibran:
*It’s fair to say that I’m not a big fan of AI. His basketball ability has just been unreal throughout his career and that is exactly why he is where he is today. It is also fair to say that he has never had the supporting cast that guys like Kobe and Duncan have had. I look forward to be proven wrong with his first full year with Denver this coming season, but I’m pretty sure I won’t be.
*I believe that Iverson should go down in the top 50 greatest. No doubt about it. However, I don’t believe he is better than several people that are considered below him. For example, I would rate Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, and Kevin Johnson (pre-Charles Barkley) all above Allen Iverson because of their ability to win. It takes 5.
To Kevin:
*Firstly, thanks for agreeing with me.
*I think we can give AI a pass for booting out Stackhouse. It wasn’t like Stack was the team’s “Good guy”.
*That one year he made the finals was just an unbelievable year. He played out of his mind for a full season and continued all the way through the finals. That team had perfect chemistry and they were beasts on the defensive end. Also, I wouldn’t say it was a weak eastern conference after watching the teams Lebron had to go through to get to the chip.
Iverson is definitely one of the best guards even at this age. Not sure where he would rank all time but he can definitely play no doubt about it.
I would never question his skills or talent or anything…however with that being said, I think there is more he can improve on as a team player.
P.S.
I knew your blog would have a curse at least LOL
He’s a hell of a players. He’s very talented and can compete with anyone. His teams will not win with him playing the way he plays now.
To Daswani, youre making Iverson look more bad. Stop thrashing him.
To NBAsians…
AI didn’t sit out on his own. That was the decision of Ed Snider, Billy Bing and Mo Cheeks.
Sixers management made their decision. And while many claim the Sixers played better without AI, they struggled for the games they sat him out and struggled after his trade. It wasn’t until Chris Webber was jettisoned when the young Sixers made strides.
While you do mention Tiny, you fail to mention the championship he led the Celtics to. Plus, he is the only player to ever lead the league in scoring and assists in the same year. Heart of a cripple? I think not!
To slightly disagree with my writing partner Gov, I would like to say that I put great little guys like Isiah, Tiny, etc. in a different category because they’ve proven that they can put their team before themselves and win.
However, guys like A.I., Steph, Stevie, Baron, Jason Terry, Gil Zero have yet to prove that they can do that. I think no one should question their talents and what they can do on the court. But the reason why their teams can’t win big is because of their shoot-first mentality and not because of a lack of skill. Is Iverson overrated? I don’t think so. But I definitely cannot say he is much better than guys like Isiah who have proven they can score with the best of them, and lead their team to a championship!
To Adiktus:
-As I mentioned in the article and one of my replies, I don’t disagree with you with regard to 2001. That season was just unreal and it is the year that made AI what he is today. That season alone is enough to place him in the top 50. My argument states that he is not good enough to be in the top 30.
-You brought up some other players that I did not necessarily defend. My article doesn’t claim that Kobe, Amare, Marion, Mcgrady, and KG are all better than Allen Iverson. Thus, it is not an argument.
-I brought up shoot first point guards and point guards. I don’t believe Iverson is anywhere close to guys like Kidd, Payton, Nash, and even Kevin Johnson.
To Quito Lopez:
- I never, in any way, compared Allen Iverson’s game and success to Stephon and Francis. I used their example to prove that the shoot first point guard will ultimately fail.
- Look at it this way. All serial killers are the same, but some get caught and some take a whole lot longer to get busted. In the end, serial killers are serial killers. In the case of the shoot first point guard, Steve Francis and Stephon Marbury got exposed quite fast. Iverson, on the other hand, had a couple of successful years. My argument states that because of the category he fills, he will eventually fall hard and never win big such as his “Shoot First” compatriots.
- And yes, I am pissed at him for stepping on the great LUE.
- Wrestling is an artform.
To Cleve:
*Cheers!
To Rudra:
- Both Zeke and Tiny were true to the term point guard. Were you ever confused as to what position they played? Did they ever have an Eric Snow or even a Larry Hughes type running the point for their squads while they manned the 2 spot? I think not.
- Once again, I look forward to being proved wrong with Iverson’s first full season with Denver. However, I don’t see that happening.
To Charles McLaughlin
- I looked it up and I guess I was wrong as regards to him demanding a trade.
- I apologize for making an assumption. Consider it my last.
- I look forward to more of your insightful comments in my future articles. Thanks for reading. Cheers.
To Nugg Doctor:
- As I mentioned in my previous comment, Tiny was never confused as a 2 guard. Everyone knew he was a true point guard. This is not the case for Allen Iverson.
- He was definitely a key player, but he did not lead the Celtics to a championship. Larry Bird takes that title.
A.I. is not a shoot first point guard! He is not a 2 guard and doesnt have a definite position. He changed the game! He is one of a kind! He showed everyone that he is the only guy who can do the things that he does. As u can see, in the last 9 years after Mj retired in his prime with the Bulls in ‘98, Shaq won four rings, Duncan also four and the other one was the Pistons against Shaq’s Lakers also. It just means that Big Man like Shaq and Duncan are the one’s who will lead you to the promise land. That’s why Oden was Chosen over Durant by the Blazers. Parker won three rings because of Duncan. But he is also a scoring guard like A.I. but no one questions his game because they are winning. Imagine A.I. with the Spurs instead of Parker?! The Spurs might probably won more than four ‘chips right now and no one might question A.I.’s game anymore like you do! So leading your team in the finals this era is quite a feat. Heart of a Cripple? I don’t think so!
*Allen Iverson had been shifted to the point in his last couple of seasons in Phili (Thus his increase in assist numbers) and he is still a scorer before he is a passer. Ergo, he is a shoot first point guard.
*Your 2nd point proves my point exactly, tweeners (no definite position) at guard CANNOT win when they are their team’s first option.
*You have just blatantly insulted Allen Iverson by placing Tony Parker on the same level as him. If you truly believe what you said, I have no further questions.
*You claim that leading a team to the finals in this era is quite a feat, did you not watch how the Cavs got to the finals? Yes, it was a hell of an achievement. However, it is not enough to make him better than so many players claimed to be below AI.
hey laker fan…whatever u say or how much u hate AI, fact is that AI will always do better with a lousy supporting cast than Kobe ever could!!!
To G:
-We have 2007-2008 to prove each other wrongly.
Mr. Daswani is trashing AI simply because he needs an outlet for his rubbish Lakers. Maybe in the past AI’s thinking of other things besides winning a championship, but we’ve all seen him grow more and more into a team player. No question about his skills, he’s one of the NBA’s all time greats. It’s just a mixture of poor chemistry, no supporting cast, and bad management for AI (except for 2001). Kobe should be the one getting trashed (not that we’re not getting a lot of that these days)! All his whining, bickering, selfishness, and premadonna sh*t won’t do the Lakers (or any of his future teams) any good. AI’s antics of the court can’t even compare to Kobe’s. Gov, write something worth reading. LAKERS SUUUUUUUCK!!
You were the one who insulted Iverson not me. You even insulted Mr. Parker personally by calling him “housewife.” By saying that, you only proved that A.I. is in a different level. More than a finals MVP. I didn’t compare him you fool! And you don’t know anything about basketball. All experts are only praise for Iverson. I’m not really a great fan of him but I always appreciated the way he played. Giving up his body against those giants and giving his team all he’s got. You were the one who compared him with you’re so callled true “point guards” and not me. Thus, I think it is not an insult placing Iverson’s name with Tony Parker. They have both MVP titles now. One in the Regular season and one in the games biggest stage. Even youre Kobe doesnt have an MVP to his name.
Tell Mr. Gov that AI has had more than 1 good season please! What kinda of BBall fan can have so much negativity on a future hall of famer? Hey Mr Gov Daswani, name one player Iverson was paired with while in their prime or that was an ALL STAR? Oh u must be talking about Jerry Stackhouse, Kukoc, Gieger, Mutombo, “washed up Webber” and oh yeah Glenn Robinson…. When I read your article, all I can think of is hater!. u must be forgetting that he still manages to average 7 assist as well as 2 steals a game, yet there are no other scorers on his roster. U seem like the bitter type still stuck on Jordan. AI is the realest lil man to ever step on the court. If he had 1/2 the talent that Isiah had, the question would never be raised. U will see after this year now that officiating can’t continue to favor Tim Duncan as it did in the 07 playoffs when Nene was giving Duncan the business while Duncan hacked away at Nene’s wrist. As far as Melo, Camby..etc, u watch how AI keeps them happy! HATER!
The author lists only 2 other “scoring guards” to prove his point: Marbury and Francis. Yes, it’s easy to bash those 2 guys. No one will argue with you there.
But what about Chauncey Billups, the former finals MVP? Or another finals MVP by the name of Dwayne Wade? Or the reigning finals MVP, Tony Parker? Do these not count as “scoring guards”? Before you answer, remember Parker’s career average is a measly 5.4 assists per game. Not everyone has realized it yet, but he is absolutely a shoot-first point guard.
To D-Wade:
*Firstly, an eye for an eye makes the world go blind.
*Secondly, I am a Laker fan, not a Kobe fan. If Kobe gets traded for Jannero Pargo or Popeye Jones’ uglier son tomorrow, I will still be a Laker fan.
*Once again, I look forward to be proven wrong next season, but I don’t believe I will.
To Adiktus:
*Firstly, when I mentioned thriving little men because of the new rules and included Tony Parker, it was simply because Parker has come a long, long way from his early days in the league. He has become a 2-time all star. That being said, he is and will NEVER be on the level of AI.
This is what you said:
“Parker won three rings because of Duncan. But he is also a scoring guard like A.I. but no one questions his game because they are winning. Imagine A.I. with the Spurs instead of Parker?!”
*Parker should not be mentioned in the same sentence as AI. He is just a cog in the spurs’ machine. If that’s not comparing him to AI, I don’t know what is.
*No one, including me, doubts that AI would’ve won with Duncan. They may have even beaten Kobe Shaq. They may have won 7 titles by now. The point of my article claims that Iverson cannot win a title as the FOCAL POINT on his team.
*I have given Iverson his due by agreeing that has surpassed all physical disabilities by achieving what he has. He owns an MVP, a trip to the finals, and several scoring titles. However, as I said and will continue to say, he is NOT better than several players that are continually mentioned below him. These players include guys like JKidd, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, and even Kevin Johnson. Even guys like Dirk are ranked below him. Now that is enough for me to call him overrated.
*I’m also not a big fan of this heart everyone talks about. Yes, he can play through pain. But No one gives guys like Payton or Stockton who built their respective bodies in such a way that they were able to avoid injury through their entire careers. Iverson getting more credit for heart than guys like that is just not right. Thus, I defined the different kinds of heart.
To Trucestiles:
*Firstly, I have continually agreed that Iverson has not had the supporting cast that most “Franchise players” hope for. In effect, I have also mentioned that I look forward to being proven wrong after a full season with the Denver Nuggets. I don’t think I will.
*What I questioned in this article is AI’s ability to be the first option and win. I believe that his nature as a tweener defeats his ability to be part of a successful team.
*Iverson averages 7 assists as well as 2 steals per game. Kobe averages 6 assists, Tmac averages 6 assists, in fact, Stephon Marbury dishes out 8! Now does this make any of them good playmakers? I think not (maybe Tmac to a certain extent). And as we all know, steal statistics don’t make the defender. Iverson takes a whole lot of chances on the defensive end and thus he gets his box score filler.
*Now don’t bring Mike into this. Let’s leave God at peace.
*Once again, mark my words, the Denver Nuggets WILL NOT WIN.
this is all BS iverson is underrated not over if he gets a good team then he gets a chip
To Joe:
*I wish you had read my previous replies. Here is my answer to that:
“I discounted guys like Chauncey, Cassell, Cousy, and Baron Davis because even though they are prolific scorers, we all know that they are or were strictly point guards. Also, none of them were ever the obvious first option scorer on their team. Francis was a first option with Houston and Marbury was arguably the unanimous best scorer on some of his teams.”
*Tony Parker is not mentioned because he is no where near the level of Allen Iverson. Let’s see him play on a team without Tim Duncan before placing him on a pedestal.
*Dwayne Wade has yet to prove himself as his team’s first option. Now don’t come out and tell me that Shaq is old. He is still the only player in the league that can alter his opponents’ entire defense. Moreover, he is as good as or better than any body at passing out of double teams. In other words, Shaq’s presence alone makes life easier for Dwayne Wade as it did for Kobe in the past.
As i’ve also said, in this era, Only Great Big Men will lead you to the promised land. Dirk, KJ, J Kidd, Nash also hasn’t won a thing like A.I. And G.P. won joining Shaq in Miami (even before in L.A. so he really knows where he should go to win). Iverson is mentioned and rated as the same as those guys. The only underrated Superstar in the league is Tim Duncan because many people mention his name the same as Dirk and KG eventhough he already won four and them none. If your not a big fan of heart then you shouldn’t be talking anything about it and disrespecting the likes of Tiny Archibald and A.I. All players in the league have weaknesses. For you to be a true fan of basketball is appreciate every good thing about the game and not write those things. Man, you gotta show love and appreciation especially you are a writer in this site. As u can see, many “true fans” of the game doesn’t agree with you. Better write something good about the game cause the game has been good to an ordinary fan like you! Or maybe that’s why your like that cause you have too many frustrations about the game. Maybe some “scoring guard” like A.I. burned you and your coach took you out of the game and benched you. Maybe you didn’t even make a team. Or maybe your a big guy who got embarassed and dunked on by an Iverson type player. No one knows but still you gotta show “real love” and not praise a little and criticize more!
*I am not comparing Allen Iverson to great big men and I don’t expect him, neither did I ever expect him, neither should it ever be expected of him to surpass great big men. I am comparing his eventual legacy to the eventual legacies of several players that are viewed below him. Again, guys such as Jkidd, GP (SEATTLE YEARS YOU CAN FORGET MIAMI), Kevin Johnson, and even John Stockton (Many rate AI over him in all time lists).
*You are right on one thing, Tim Duncan IS underrated. He should be in the top 10 all time already. His lack of appeal keeps him in the top 15/20. I don’t think many people put him in the same level as Dirk and KG. Only idiot/casual fans could think that way.
*You claim that I am not a big fan of heart, please reread my previous statements to you:
“I’m also not a big fan of this heart everyone talks about. Yes, he can play through pain. But No one gives guys like Payton or Stockton who built their respective bodies in such a way that they were able to avoid injury through their entire careers. Iverson getting more credit for heart than guys like that is just not right. Thus, I defined the different kinds of heart.”
*Does that say that I am not a big fan of heart? I think not. What you fail to understand is that I am not a big fan of Allen Iverson being known as the consumate heart guy. Why you ask? He’s missed a considerable amount of games over his career. Everytime you watch him, he’s has some kind of injury. What’s to blame of this? Possibly a lack in conditioning? Very possible. Isn’t Iverson that same guy that loves to miss practice? To me, that is not heart. Heart is Michael Jordan, John Stockton, Gary Payton, A.C. Green. These guys have conditioned themselves well enough to hardly miss games over their careers. That kind of heart, I love.
*So now your saying that all writers should do nothing but give praise to the NBA and all its players? Where’s the fun in that? Don’t get me wrong though, I absolutely love watching Iverson play, I just don’t think he’s as good as he’s made out to be from the perspective of all time rankings.
*A writer’s job is to write what he thinks and defend the hell out of it. I’ll be here all day defending my claims, and i’m ready for whatever you’ve got.
You have too many claims that has no connection. If Mr. Iverson for you is overrated, then you are also questioning the experts of the game and tell them to stop praising the players that need to be praised. I didn’t compare him to the great big men, I said Big Men will get you to the promise land. Also to Tony Parker. I said put him in his shoes then the Spurs would have won more than four. That’s why to lead your team in the finals is Great. But you can’t appreciate that even insulting Lebron and the Cavs after a Great run this year which your Lakers couldn’t do. You also claimed that Iverson had one great season. Really?! He wouldn’t be a great player then and be named to the all nba team more than once. Being named in that group almost every year is greatness. You said that your a Laker fan and not a Kobe fan. Maybe if A.I. was in Kobe’s shoes all those years with Shaq and he won those three championships and Shaq is still with the Lakers and probably won one or two more (because Iverson would not push away shaq out of L.A. like Kobe did), and Kobe was with the Sixers, then your column might be against Kobe and never have to say anything about A.I’s game. I understand you Mr. Writer. You just have to defend those things you say until the end cause you will lose your credibility if you agree to the people who are not in the same page as you (which is most of us). Think about it again Mr. Laker fan, you know you wouldn’t say anything against Iverson if he’s with your favorite team! I’m out! Nothing more to say! Point proven! I know your not gonna stop but who cares anymore! I’m out like Daswani who doesn’t even know how to ball and say all negative things about a great player!
*MY LAST COMMENT WAS TO ADIKTUS.
*Sorry but you can’t just say i’m out, because I would then officially win this argument by default.
*Your arguments are flawed, you keep placing AI with Duncan and AI with Shaq and winning championships. Did I ever disagree with you as regards to that? NO. He would win all those titles.
*You bring up Kobe for no reason. I mentioned him ZERO times in my article. Why you ask? Because I have no argument that makes Kobe better than Iverson. In my eyes, they are on the same level (And yes, Iverson has achieved more as his team’s first option). You’ve got nothing on me. And yes, I would have loved the Kobe to Chicago deal and rebuild my Lakers once again.
*You fail to understand what I mean by overrated. I mean that he doesn’t deserve to be ranked in the top 30 all time. I’ve claimed, OVER AND OVER, that he deserves to be in the top 50 all time. Is this not clear to you?
*How old are you?
“To Joe:
*I wish you had read my previous replies. Here is my answer to that:
“I discounted guys like Chauncey, Cassell, Cousy, and Baron Davis because even though they are prolific scorers, we all know that they are or were strictly point guards. Also, none of them were ever the obvious first option scorer on their team. Francis was a first option with Houston and Marbury was arguably the unanimous best scorer on some of his teams.”
*Tony Parker is not mentioned because he is no where near the level of Allen Iverson. Let’s see him play on a team without Tim Duncan before placing him on a pedestal.
*Dwayne Wade has yet to prove himself as his team’s first option. Now don’t come out and tell me that Shaq is old. He is still the only player in the league that can alter his opponents’ entire defense. Moreover, he is as good as or better than any body at passing out of double teams. In other words, Shaq’s presence alone makes life easier for Dwayne Wade as it did for Kobe in the past.”
1. Ok, I will throw Parker out of the discussion because his talent level is not high enough. I have no problem with that.
2. I don’t see why Baron Davis isn’t a valid counter-example to your point. He’s helped his team tremendously, and obviously he’s not a “traditional” point guard. He would be a much better fit for the shooting guard position than Marbury would ever be.
This year is the playoffs, Davis proved that he is his team’s best scorer. He went in with a shoot-first mentality, from the point guard position, and took over the series against Dallas. He beat them almost single-handedly. I don’t see how you can argue with any of that.
3. Come on, your statements about Wade are ludicrous. You don’t really believe that stuff you typed, do you? Wade is clearly his team’s first option. Shaq only played 40 games last year and averaged only 28 minutes. He was hardly even a factor on the court, especially in the playoffs. If anything, he made the game HARDER for Wade, by simply being too slow to keep up.
*I don’t know about Baron Davis. I still see it as “arguable”. In my eyes, he is still true to the word point guard in the grand scheme of things.
However, you are right that in the Mavs series, Baron was clearly his teams first scoring option. It still doesn’t negate my point however, since I still don’t believe that playing the shoot first point guard will get him any further than the 2nd round. Moreover, he just happened to play a team that they matched up perfectly with and a team that was for some reason, terrified out of their wits. My point states that these hybrid guards can only take you so far.
He is a great player and Iverson is far greater than he will ever be. But these guys just can’t win big in the long haul.
*I was talking about Wade during the year they won the title. If you want to go technical, then yes, Wade is the team’s first option because he averaged more points. That makes Kobe the Lakers first option during 03′, 04′, and 05′ but we know that he just wasn’t. Neither was Wade. Both are tremendous players but Shaq is Shaq and he makes the game far easier than it should be for guys like Wade and Kobe.
Your point was scoring guards could not give a team a title. That’s why I elaborated Shaq and Duncan! I said I’m out cause I know there will be always haters in this world like you who just would’nt stop. No player is ranked in the all time list until they retire. Iverson is not ranked yet. If some say that he is in the top 30, then so be it. Your gonna right this whole article and Insult him just to prove your point that he is only a top 50?!!! People who know the game better than you are the one’s who put him in that list! Have you ever played a pro basketball game?!!! How would you feel if your 7 feet tall and a 6 foot guy won an MVP award instead of you?!!! You don’t know all that stuff cause your not a true baller!!! Lastly, when when you say that A.I. is overrated? Think again! With the likes of Gary Payton in Seattle as you mentioned… G.P. is always recognized for what he did. He was a 9 time all-star, Selected to the U.S.A. team twice, defensive player of the year, all nba team. Even Kj was Selected by the U.S.A. team. So what are you talking about overrated?! Vince Carter even more overrated than Iverson. And i’m not gonna pout about it cause I understand why he is. I know Mr. Writer that your gonna defend yourself ’til the end. I really feel bad for you cause you can’t enjoy the game the way it’s suppose to. All I can see in you is a fan even worse than the Piston fans who got involved in the brawl. And don’t even ask anything about me if you can’t answer my question if you even play ball!
#44 was to JOE.
Listen,
Any & Everyone that thinks Iverson is overrated, a ball-hog, natural-born loser, or any other slanderous nickname is an IDIOT!
Carmelo is Iverson’s 1st teammate in 11 seasons that’s actually someone Iverson CAN defer to. Name one other teammate Iverson could rely on if his game was off…. I’ll wait……….
EXACTLY. The “fine wine” theory is running it’s course when you speak of Iverson’s career. The man just keeps getting better & better. I’m not saying that a title is coming to Denver. I’m not even saying he’s the best in the league (despite him being my favorite player). I can say without a shadow of a doubt, that if you could trade Iverson for Kobe back in 2001, the Sixers wouldn’t have made it to the playoffs, let alone the Finals. It takes a special player to bring a team that weak to the dance. If you disagree, think back the Kobe’s performance against the Suns in the 2006 series before you rebut.
OK first off this article is one that i do not agree with….. wat do u mean he cant win name one player in the NBA that has done everything by himself NAME ONE…… Look at Kobe he cant get out of the first round, Nash cant get to the finals to save his a**, KG had to go else where for hope, Dirk Nowitski??? nothing needs to be said when u go from NBA finalist to a first round sweep, Tracy McGrady even has Yao on his team and cant do a damn thing so if you’re going to criticize A.I for not winning make sure you mention some other name before him…… A.I also got to the finals which wasnt done by none of the above except for Dirk…… Kobe did it WITH THE DIESEL…… so dont make it look as if A.I is a poison…. when u watch him it never seems as if his team is going to lose until the final buzzer he plays hard and busts his a** every single game nd i know coming from Philly nd watching him play night in and night out……… But i guess u wouldnt know that coming from L.A where the only time they get a Philly game is when they play the Lakers……. Ur probably a Kobe fan NEway……..
U just a hater mane. He didnt have a good supporting cast in Philly. Ur baby boi Kobe had shaq. Ai aint overrated. He’s one of dem athletes who plays wit a lotta heart. Just face tha fact tha ur boi aint winnin anotha ring. Kobe is a ball hog. He wants to be like Mike,but he cant n will neva be like Mike. I do think Kobe is good tho,but he aint gon be tha greatest NBA player of all time. Sorry! Ai wont either,but gotta give The Answer sum credit. He has a good chance to win a ring in Denver.
So stop hatin n just appreciate. Once Ai is gon,u’ll wish u never hated on him.
Both Chauncey and Dwade have played the pg/sg hybrid, more than either Francis or Steph. Not only that, but they were both the leading scores on championship teams. AI winning on the Nuggets is also irrelevent, as he isn’t the leader (on-court) of that team.