SF Comparison: 2014 vs. 1990

[3ball]

Take a look at how Barkley and Malone played, then how LeBron and Durant play. I also call Duncan a C, rather than a PF, even though he's listed according to Bball ref as a PF.

Because he plays like a C, even when he's listed as PF next to Splitter.

It's wouldn't be a fair or objective to go through every player and do a subjective analysis of how they play.

I have to go with the information bballref puts out.. which IS accurate and based on the position that player started at all year... I can't cherry-pick here and there or that reduces the integrity of the analysis..

The list in the OP includes all the starters with over a 15.0 PER... I think these are feasible and fair parameters to get a good idea about the quality of SF's in a given era.
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[oarabbus]

I can't go through every player and do a subjective analysis of how they play.

I have to go with the information bballref puts out.. which IS accurate and based on the position that player started at all year... I can't cherry-pick here and there or that reduces the integrity of the analysis..

The list in the OP includes all the starters with over a 15.0 PER... I think these are feasible and fair parameters to get a good idea about the quality of SF's in a given era.

Ok bro, well KD is still the second or best SF listed

[3ball]

Ok bro, well KD is still the second or best SF listed

that's cool... when i said that i wouldn't take any guy from 2014, I was just making a point.. if someone DID want to take a guy or two from 2014 - that's totally fine... in spite of that, 2014 is still getting crushed..

[navy]

It's wouldn't be a fair or objective to go through every player and do a subjective analysis of how they play.

I have to go with the information bballref puts out.. which IS accurate and based on the position that player started at all year... I can't cherry-pick here and there or that reduces the integrity of the analysis..

The list in the OP includes all the starters with over a 15.0 PER... I think these are feasible and fair parameters to get a good idea about the quality of SF's in a given era.
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Actually bballref puts players in positions by heights as well...

[3ball]

Here are the bigs from 1990 and 2014 that have go-to offensive capability... They must have true offensive skill where you can run offense through them.... They can't just be guys that finish plays (i.e. Ibaka, Tyson Chandler, etc.)


Go-To Centers

2014 Centers - Demarcus Cousins.. Brook Lopez.. Tim Duncan.. Pau Gasol.. Chris Bosh.. Marc Gasol.. Andrew Bogut.. Anthony Davis (although he mostly just finishes plays right now)

Total: 8


1990 Centers - Robinson... Ewing... Olajuwon... Moses Malone... Robert Parish... Rik Smits... Vlade Divac.. Brad Daughtery... Sam Bowie... Rony Seikaly.

Total: 10



Go-To Power Forwards

2014 PF's - Bron.. Melo.. Kevin Love... Nowitski... Aldridge... David Lee... Zach Randolph... Paul Milsap... David West.. Nene Hilario

Total: 10


1990 PF's - Karl Malone.. Charles Barkely... Tom Chambers... Kevin McHale... Terry Cummings... Larry Nance... Roy Tarpley... Detlef Schrempf... Armen Gilliam... Danny Manning... Otis Thorpe.. Shawn Kemp.

Total: 12


... Clearly, if you take Lebron and Melo out of the PF category and put them in SF, there are only 8 PF's with real offensive games (and of course only 8 Centers).

ditto for the centers, where even a cursory glance shows vast inferiority in 2014 compared to 1990

the lower number of go-to bigs in 2014 is due to the spacing in today's game that reduces the need to score ON defenders as often, which produces a lot of non-shot-creating bigs whose only job is to dunk/finish plays and move their feet well defensively.
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[navy]

This is untrue... BBallref does it 100% based on what position the player started at.

Duncan began starting at Center in 2007, so bballref reflects that... Lebron starts at PF because of small-ball and ballref reflects that.

Not really, because Battier was actually who Spolestra started at powerfoward last year.

[oarabbus]

Not really, because Battier was actually who Spolestra started at powerfoward last year.

This. You can't just not include LeBron at SF, or Carmelo. Today's SF flat out dominate the 90s.

[3ball]

Not really, because Battier was actually who Spolestra started at powerfoward last year.

Again, not true.. Battier hasn't been listed as a PF in any year of his career.

Lebron started at PF all year and Battier was the SF... this is common knowledge.

Let's say Lebron was still playing SF like he was in Cleveland.. It doesn't change anything - the 2014 SF's still get beat, and now the 2014 PF's get crushed worse than before.

[navy]

No, actually anyone who watched Heat games knows the truth. This is why you cant just go by ballref, which I mentioned used heights.


Battier was more often then not matched up at the powerfoward postion whenever he started. Lebron was on the perimeter.

Postions arent as defined as they use to be, for obvious reasons. But history will look back and see Lebron James as a small forward despite whatever offense Spolestra was running. Same for Carmelo.

[3ball]

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Starting SF's With at Least 15.0 PER


(lists are only loosely matched up to see which era can match the other era player-for-player)


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]2014[COLOR="White"].................................[/COLOR]1990

Lebron James*...................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*....................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. James Worthy*
Paul George.......................... Scottie Pippen*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum..................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................ Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey


1990 wins here, mainly because 2014 has too many role players - you can't compare role players like Parsons, Leonard, Ariza, Iguodala, and Hayward to All-NBA Mark Aguirre, or HOF's Bernard King, Alex English, Adrian Dantley or Chris Mullin.
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[ralph_i_el]

I went by positional listings in bballref.

Lebron and Melo started at PF most of the year, so they were listed as PF's..

If we were going to do a comparison of bigs instead, we'd see that the 2014 bigs match up reasonably well depth-wise, but have a clear deficit to the 1990 bigs in offensive skill and scoring production - today's game produces a lot of non-shot-creating bigs whose only job is to dunk/finish plays and move their feet well defensively, so the 2014 bigs need the extra boost from Lebron and Melo tbh.
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2014 bigs have an offensive deficit...AND you're counting Bron and Melo as bigs?

those can't BOTH be true.

[GODbe]

OP only left out Melo in an attempt to make it fair for that shtty 90s era .

[3ball]

OP only left out Melo in an attempt to make it fair for that shtty 90s era .

Did you even read this post?.. Melo and Lebron are in there

Based on bballref, which is the go-to source for these kinds of things, Lebron and Carmelo played PF last year - and clearly, the best way to do the analysis is to leave it like that..

Nonetheless...


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]2014[COLOR="White"].................................[/COLOR]1990

Lebron James*...................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*....................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. James Worthy*
Paul George.......................... Scottie Pippen*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum..................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................ Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey


So even if you want to include Carmelo and Lebron, 2014 still loses - only three HOF for 2014 compared to eight for 1990... the first three spots are close, but everything else down the line goes to 1990... and now the PF's get destroyed even worse without Melo and Lebron.

[Trollsmasher]

next level cherrypicking

[3ball]

next level cherrypicking

SPECIFICALLY HOW?..

I'm giving whatever concession posters want.

You want Lebron and Melo as SF's?.. No problem... see the previous post (posted again below) where I did just that...

[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]2014 SF's[COLOR="White"].................................[/COLOR]1990 SF's

Lebron James*...................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*....................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. James Worthy*
Paul George.......................... Scottie Pippen*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum..................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................ Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey

HOF (*)

As you can see, although the first three spots are close, all the rest go to 1990... and 1990 beats 2014 in HOF by a score of 8 to 3.. it's not close...

And keep in mind that the bigs (PF's and Centers) for 2014 lack offense compared to 1990 even WITH Lebron and Melo as PF's, so by putting them in the SF category instead, it really decimates an already inferior cast of bigs.
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