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Old 08-05-2012, 02:24 AM   #160
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Originally Posted by Round Mound
Barkley Was Better from 1985 to 1995...Then Malone Took Over as Barkley Declined Through Back and Knee Injuries and Lost His Explosivness and Leaping Ability

Barkley was better from '86-'93, except for '92. But Malone surpassed him in '94 due to Chuck's back problems and decline and Malone improving his own skills.

Originally Posted by Shep
lol@malone having one of the best series of his career when he had better series' in the previous 2 rounds let alone his career. in any case malone did outplay stockton in 2 of 3 series in that playoff, but he was getting outplayed by karl malone here who was the best power forward in the nba, and a top 8 player overall, he wasn't getting outplayed by maurice cheeks.

Considering what he did against Buck Williams, it's definitely up there. I never said his '92 WCF was his best series for sure, just that it's one of his best.

Malone was anywhere from a top 2-4 player, and Barkley never got outplayed by Mo Cheeks except for his rookie year.

what a joke. stockton was the mvp and best player in that series.

Yeah, that is quite a joke you told.

atleast stockton made the playoffs at all

Ah, the benefits of being a sidekick.

malone was the jazz' best player by this point. and althought stockton's numbers were down, he still contributed to a winning team and only 3 other teams made it that far. much better than putting up your normal numbers and getting swept in the first round.

Malone was always better than him.

If you lose in an earlier round, but play at your usual level, it usually means you came to play, but aren't on a contending team. To me, that is not a playoff failure. But in Stockton's case, he was on a contending team, didn't come to play in the series he got eliminated in, and that is a playoff failure to me. I wasn't overly impressed with his play up to that point either.

each to their own definition. playoff failure in my definition is losing in the first round while not stepping up at all, and getting outplayed by role players. i'd much rather win 2 series and then lose in the conference finals than get swept in the first round playing subpar or not make the playoffs at all.

Barkley doesn't get outplayed by role players.

the jazz made the conference finals for the second time in their 20 year history and john stockton was their second best player in the regular season and playoffs. much better than getting swept in the first round.

Key word, second best player. Barkley didn't have that luxury other than his rookie year and his real decline years in Houston.

malone was clearly the jazz' best player in 1996 so being mvp of a series means little. the best players on teams usually are the mvp of the playoffs except for some anomalies like hersey hawkins being the mvp for the sixers, and mo cheeks as well in separate series.

Malone had clearly been Utah's best player for a while.

penny was second, behind gary payton

Nah, they were relatively close, but Penny's offense was significantly better, imo. Payton was clearly the better defender and the gap in their defense was bigger than offense, but offense is more important at the point guard position. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting, and led the team to a 20-8 record without Shaq, including a 17-5 start when he was averaging 26.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 6.8 apg, 2 spg, 50.3 FG%, 62.2 TS% showing what he could do as the man.

Payton's defense was clearly better as I mentioned, both help/team defense and man to man defense. But Penny's passing and court vision impressed me more, his mid-range game was better, imo and he was much bigger and much more athletic making him a greater threat driving to the basket and finishing. Just the better overall scorer and passer/playmaker to me.

so you agree it dropped

Yes, and I don't care for the reason I already stated.

generally it wasn't high enough, and while others were able to step up to the occasion, barkley was not.

Barkley's series was impressive to me, especially for a 3rd year player. It doesn't alter his ranking on my list one way or the other, though.

actually mo cheeks stepping up and outplaying barkley was the reason why they had a chance.

Nice imagination.

decline so much yet he was still better than he was the previous year, and every year bar 3 before 1993

I don't know where you get this shit from. I don't think you're being serious.

nash was top 7 overall in 2007. as for kobe in the top 3? kobe wasn't even in the top 18. and after kidd and nash, the best point guards were baron davis, and tony parker.

Kobe not in the top 18? Again, you can't be serious. He was the consensus best player. Not only were his individual feats among the greatest ever, but his team overachieved considering their very limited talent level and the injuries to key players.

There was a total of 1 player who had a case to be over Kobe, and that was Tim Duncan. Everyone else was at least 1 tier below.

Nash was top 3, would have been top 4 if Dirk hadn't choked so bad in the first round.

Parker was a nice player, but just top 25

no argument can be made for any of your clains so far in this thread.

Nothing I've said is the least bit surprising, or any sort of stretch. Kidd being top 10 in 2011 and closer to Nowitzki than he was to Chandler or Terry just sounds like a joke or trolling.

Kidd was comparable to Marion as their 4th/5th best player. He was pretty much a role player by that point. A very good one, but role players don't come close to top 10, or top 20 for that matter.

he was actually third most valuable that year

I'd have him second behind Hakeem.

wasn't even top 7

4th best player behind Jordan, Magic and Ewing and probably deserved a top 3 MVP ranking as well over Ewing thanks to the extra wins.

these are the correct choices.

he was actually third in 3 years: 1989, 1991, and 1992.

No, he was second on his team. 3rd is underrating him, then again, Mark Eaton and Jeff Malone were pretty good.

magic did what his team needed him to do. in 1982 the lakers had 6 players in double digits averaging almost 110 between those guys. it would be no point in him scoring all these points, infact it would be to the detriment of the team. instead he rebounded better than he ever did in his entire career, did an outstanding job forcing turnovers (league leader in steals), shot the ball at 54%, and added 9.5 assists as a 2 guard. he did have a post game, although not as polished as it was later one in his career, but once again, he did not need this at that point as he was able to dominate, be the best player on the floor and eventually be the best in the league by the end of the playoffs.

Magic did what his team needed him to do, and that team happened to be the most talented in the league. He also did about what he was capable of doing, except he was capable of a bigger playmaking load.

Scoring more would have been a detriment to the team because he didn't have the skill set for it at that point. When he did have the skill set for it with the outside shot and post game, the Lakers had their best record since he joined the Lakers had their best record with him(65-17) and were the first team to win back to back since '69.

Magic was top 5 in '82, but I really can't see him higher.

bird and magic had the better regular season.

Nope, Bird is less crazy, but in the end it doesn't make much sense to say anyone was as good as Moses that year.

bird and magic already were better before the playoffs had started. erving was very close behind, kareem was a bit behind but then he helps the lakers dominate the playoffs, only losing 2 games in the process. this makes kareem easily better than malone. and erving gets past larry bird and makes the nba finals, making it an easy decision as to who were the best 4 players that year, infact it was closer between malone and robert parish than it was between malone and any of those 4.

1.Moses Malone
2.Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3.Larry Bird
4.Julius Erving
5.Magic Johnson

Bird has a case over Kareem and Magic has a case over Dr. J, but this order is better. Parish and Gervin would probably be the next player on the list.

his team meaning number 1 offensive option. he was the best player on that team since 1982

'84 at the earliest, but still debatable.

the opportunity was there to be more ball dominant if he wasn't. and he could have been much more of a scorer, especially since the number 1 scorer in the league was no longer there.

Are you forgetting about the triangle offense? That's not an offense that encourages ball-dominance. As it turned out, it was a great idea to rely on the triangle more than ever with much less potential offensively. Pippen played a similar role to what he had been playing except for bringing the ball up a little less and splitting playmaking duties a bit more. He still had a career season setting career highs in scoring(22.0 ppg), rebounding(8.7 rpg), steals and a career high at the time in 3s made(0.9) and 3P%(32%). His team also overachieved at least 15 games by Phil Jackson's estimate.

Last edited by ShaqAttack3234 : 08-05-2012 at 03:10 AM.
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