The Asian Paradox

[millwad]

This is a paradox, found mainly amongst Asian university students. No I am not talking about Asian Americans, I'm talking about FOB Asians accepted into American and European universities.

I am speaking mainly of Asians originating from the countries Japan, China and South Korea.

Many students from these countries grow up pushed by their parents to study insanely hard in school, and to take extra classes and get the very top grades.

HERE IS THE PARADOX:
Many Asian students learn English in class starting from a very young age. So how come when they come to Europe or America, they often times suck hard at English? Surely English is a class that their parents would force them to work extra hard at and dominate-and yet, I know many an Asian student who has been in America or Europe for years and still sucks at English.


I bring to you-the Asian paradox.

You're a clown, if people would have wrote something like that about Israeli students you would have called them anti-semitic and that they are nazis.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Hmmm.

Don't have an answer to this but have an inkling as to what it may be.

Isn't American English one of the few languages which is LOADED with exceptions, inconsistencies, idioms, jargon, prepositions, spelling mistakes, fairly large discrepancies between dialects (well UK as well of course cockney vs. londoner) slang (well everybody has slang but americans have even more), s-v-p format? According to my linguist teacher this could be it although not sure.

Amelia Bedelia series went on and on. Most of the jokes in Rush Hour were based on culture shock and J. Chan trynna swaggerjack Chris Tucker.

I before e except after c can be defiled quite quick.

In conclusion, it's pretty hard.



Anywho, if this is an indirect jab at encouraging Asians to balance their social lives with their academic lives; then I'm all fukking for it.

[Nick Young]

You're a clown, if people would have wrote something like that about Israeli students you would have called them anti-semitic and that they are nazis.

not really doe. My parents were a lot like AZN parents IMO, in terms of constantly pushing and nagging to study extra hard and get top marks, only they didn't discourage creativity. Lots of Jewish parents are like AZN parents, so its not really offensive for you to make a post like that.

As for Israelis, I dont know anything about how their parents raise them I never even been there doe.

[magic chiongson]

filipino students fob are pretty good at english..even better than some americans

[n00bie]

I don't think I'd ever sound like a native citizen but if I studied it for 5+years with my parents sending me to extra classes and pressuring me to study it all the time growing up I'd definately atleast be able to make myself understandable and grammatically correct.

Foreign languages aren't ass difficult to learn as many people make them out to be. It's just that most people don't have the dedication.

Taking a class for a couple hours a day will not make you fluent in any language. You actually have to speak it on a daily basis.. which means the only way they'd learn is if they actually lived in north america for a couple of years.

Honestly, this is common sense.. you don't need to make a thread about it.

[lefthook00]

In my experience, fob East Asians are pretty damn good when it comes to writing/reading English(b/c they practice on paper mostly), but due to their tongue/culture/new environment/fear, their verbal English lags severely behind their written skills.

Or they just suck over-all.

Also, with Korean and Japanese, their syntax is all backwards so it's really hard for them to write/speak English sentences(it's like how Yoda speaks). Chinese/Indians/Flips are usually much better at speaking English, but their written skills are lagging imo.

[GatorKid117]

Its actually pretty simple.

They don't have to speak for their exams. The only thing required is written stuff (vocab/grammar rules etc). So, they don't practice speaking. Their English grammar is amazing because in English class that is really all they are being taught.

Source: I live in China and teach English.

[JtotheIzzo]

paradox

1-their languages are dramatically different.

2-their schools teach grammar rules, not casual conversation.

3-their cultures are littered with bits of butchered English which they think is acceptable.

4-most of them (the Chinese anyway) speak their local dialect plus Mandarin.

5-with the internet and the ability to enjoy everything from back home there is less incentive to become good at English, they can hang around with people from their home country, talk their native language, listen to their music and watch their own TV on websites like Funshion.

6-rich kids practice conversation with people like Gator Kid, but in group classes that are held in cram schools (after hours kind of babysitting school). The average rube cannot afford this.

7-They have noises in their languages we cannot make and we have noises in our languages they cannot make, only those with extensive time overseas can sound fluent.

Working a lot overseas and dealing with East Asians I have gotten used to poorly written emails and broken conversations, it is a delight when I deal with someone who has been to school in North America because they are so much better. It is much much worse back in the motherlands Nick, much worse.

[Randy]

I'm in S. Korea right now teaching English, so I can't speak for Taiwan, Japan, China, etc. and am certainly not an expert... but from what I've learned, there is an exam here (I think high school age) that determines how capable students are at English, but it is mostly reading and written, with little speaking. My students can read very, very well but then struggle to tell me what they actually read about.

A lot of English teachers here are not very good, and only want a paid vacation to Asia. Luckily my school has teachers who really do care and encourage our students to engage in conversation. It can be difficult to get shy kids to speak up, especially when there are other students who are slightly better at English than them. However, I have some very, very bright kids that should/could be very good at English as they get older.

So, yeah... if you really cared about the subject, that's my view.

[GatorKid117]

paradox

1-their languages are dramatically different.

2-their schools teach grammar rules, not casual conversation.

3-their cultures are littered with bits of butchered English which they think is acceptable.

4-most of them (the Chinese anyway) speak their local dialect plus Mandarin.

5-with the internet and the ability to enjoy everything from back home there is less incentive to become good at English, they can hang around with people from their home country, talk their native language, listen to their music and watch their own TV on websites like Funshion.

6-rich kids practice conversation with people like Gator Kid, but in group classes that are held in cram schools (after hours kind of babysitting school). The average rube cannot afford this.

7-They have noises in their languages we cannot make and we have noises in our languages they cannot make, only those with extensive time overseas can sound fluent.

Working a lot overseas and dealing with East Asians I have gotten used to poorly written emails and broken conversations, it is a delight when I deal with someone who has been to school in North America because they are so much better. It is much much worse back in the motherlands Nick, much worse.

I agree with everything but #6 (speaking about China). I work in a public school and most of the native speaking foreigners I come into contact to do as well. I know a lot of people who just work at training centers on the side for extra cash.

A lot of English teachers here are not very good, and only want a paid vacation to Asia. Luckily my school has teachers who really do care and encourage our students to engage in conversation. It can be difficult to get shy kids to speak up, especially when there are other students who are slightly better at English than them. However, I have some very, very bright kids that should/could be very good at English as they get older.

Definitely true. Sometimes I can't believe how many sleazy looking people are getting teaching jobs. Not the mention the fact non native speakers getting OK jobs as well. I have a Mexican friend whose English is pretty bad who is teaching English right now. He's teaching kindergarten so its not that big a deal but still... the man cannot write worth a damn. He cannot speak in past tense properly. But for many schools, its not about the teaching quality, its about the status of having foreign teachers so it all works out.

[Nick Young]

Taking a class for a couple hours a day will not make you fluent in any language. You actually have to speak it on a daily basis.. which means the only way they'd learn is if they actually lived in north america for a couple of years.

Honestly, this is common sense.. you don't need to make a thread about it.

In my language classes, we always had to practice speaking to eachother, and when I had a French tutor I had to speak to her in French for an hour. So I assume in these English classes in Asia, students would be encouraged to practice speaking to eachother too.

[dr.hee]

Before criticising foreign students for their lack of English skills, OP should work on his own vocabulary...for example by learning what the word "paradox" means.

[kNIOKAS]

Some of them are exposed to yall stupid writing grammar on internet. You know how that inhibits learning? A lot.

[dr.hee]

I'm in S. Korea right now teaching English, so I can't speak for Taiwan, Japan, China, etc. and am certainly not an expert... but from what I've learned, there is an exam here (I think high school age) that determines how capable students are at English, but it is mostly reading and written, with little speaking. My students can read very, very well but then struggle to tell me what they actually read about.

A lot of English teachers here are not very good, and only want a paid vacation to Asia. Luckily my school has teachers who really do care and encourage our students to engage in conversation. It can be difficult to get shy kids to speak up, especially when there are other students who are slightly better at English than them. However, I have some very, very bright kids that should/could be very good at English as they get older.

So, yeah... if you really cared about the subject, that's my view.

Cool, would be interesting to read a bit more about how you got the job, what's your background on teaching and so on...

[The_Yearning]

Its actually pretty simple.

They don't have to speak for their exams. The only thing required is written stuff (vocab/grammar rules etc). So, they don't practice speaking. Their English grammar is amazing because in English class that is really all they are being taught.

Source: I live in China and teach English.

Fellow Gator over here. Are you teaching English over there as a full-time gig or just a side thing? How do you get one and what are the requirements?