Countdown to extinction: Only 6 northern white rhinos left on Earth

[SCdac]

Lots of good discussion these last couple pages and not gonna address every point Y'all know where I stand more or less and I know where y'all stand. I'm a psychologist (in training) and a firm atheist so naturally discussions that start to venture into "origins and meaning of life" are going to splinter out into 20 different discussions and schools of thought. Just nice to see a civil discussion on ISH. We have this tendency to put great importance on ourselves but if we could get into the mind of a gorilla or orca they'd probably be just as self-centered thinking the world revolves around them. Meaning, they'd be sitting around together saying "humans, who really needs them??". Obviously they're not verbalizing that but you get my point. The importance of our existence is relative, debatable, and not fully understood IMO. I don't think humans will ever fully understand this planet let alone ourselves so it can be a little comical when I hear my fellow man sounding like an authority figure over earth. We're only a small piece to a huge puzzle, not a huge piece to a small puzzle IMO.

[GimmeThat]

if white rhinos were after me

I'd sure hate humans

[Jailblazers7]

Why? The Earth has a finite lifespan; preserving life serves no purpose aside from delaying its inevitable extinction. In that way the only thing of value that can come from earth is the hope of some kind of achievement that eclipses the petty squabbles of tribes and species usually referred to as life, and that can only come from humanity or perhaps a more advanced species.

You seem to think life itself is special and of value. I don't: life (at least in nature) is nasty, brutish, painful and short. I most certainly would rather not live at all than live the average life of 20,000 years ago. Trying to understand life, its origins and axioms, to try and understand what made us what we are and what we could be, that's special, and that's the only thing (as far as i can see) that transcends the complete lack of value inherent in all life.
No species (including humans) in any way deserves

I don't disagree that discovery is a kind of transcendent purpose that gives meaning to humanity but I don't see how that is at odds with life being special and having value. In fact, you seem to agree that understanding it is the most important thing about our species. I'm not sure how understanding the origin and potential of life can be of value but life itself isn't.

And I disagree that nature is nasty, brutish, painful and short. Maybe when things are viewed at an individual level but ecosystems are self-sustaining and beautiful when viewed in their totality. The value of all life is that it connects to form a self-sustaining ecosystem that allows for evolution. Preserving the Earth is important because it is the only source of life that we can possibly studied and learn from right now. It provides us with knowledge and the means to survive in order to live up to the grand purpose of trying to understand it all. Trying to extend the Earth's life span is an effort to give us more time to reach that transcendent achievement you noted.

[robert de niro]

You have to associate a higher level of consciousness with importance I think.

The entire point of life IMO is to experience feelings... Love, joy, happiness, sadness, fear, jealousy, etc, etc, etc... The "drama" of life is the whole point and there is no creature on earth that experiences that drama moreso than humans.

In fact I would even say that the death of a human who is mentally challenged or handicapped is less tragic than the death of an intelligent human because they can not experience life the way others can.

Now with that said, with only 6 white rhinos left, and that species even being somewhat conscious, one white rhino could be seen as more important than one human at this point.

that's a very simple, naive, and anthropocentric view of the world even for you

[GimmeThat]

that's a very simple, naive, and anthropocentric view of the world even for you

discovering the meaning of life
don't necessarily make a meaningful life

[~primetime~]

that's a very simple, naive, and anthropocentric view of the world even for you

I agree that it is a simple and anthropocentric view, but IMO it IS as simple as that...without a higher level of consciousness there is less purpose to all of this IMO.

I disagree that it is naive viewpoint though...

[SunsN07BookIt]

When that super virus shows up and threatens the existence of the human race, I'm going to be rooting for the virus. Just letting you know.

If the human race is that bad in your opinion, why you don't you do the Earth a favor and kill your own pouting, crybaby @ss right now?

[Dresta]

I don't disagree that discovery is a kind of transcendent purpose that gives meaning to humanity but I don't see how that is at odds with life being special and having value. In fact, you seem to agree that understanding it is the most important thing about our species. I'm not sure how understanding the origin and potential of life can be of value but life itself isn't.

And I disagree that nature is nasty, brutish, painful and short. Maybe when things are viewed at an individual level but ecosystems are self-sustaining and beautiful when viewed in their totality. The value of all life is that it connects to form a self-sustaining ecosystem that allows for evolution. Preserving the Earth is important because it is the only source of life that we can possibly studied and learn from right now. It provides us with knowledge and the means to survive in order to live up to the grand purpose of trying to understand it all. Trying to extend the Earth's life span is an effort to give us more time to reach that transcendent achievement you noted.

I didn't say it was at odds, but you said you could see the argument that humans are the least important species on the planet, which is what i disagreed with. I'm not at all saying it isn't worth preserving life on Earth, but that if humans didn't exist there wouldn't be a species capable of even contemplating or appreciating life or existence, and thus the existence of life would become meaningless (at least to me it would). So i find it hard to square your above post with any argument close to humans being the least important species. In fact, any species intelligent enough to inquire about these things would have to already be outside the food chain (or at least on the way to doing so).

You agree that nature is nasty, brutish etc. on a subjective, individual level at least (and certainly before the most recent 10,000 years), but the only species on earth that can view ecosystems in anything like their totality is the human one; how can something be beautiful with no one to observe it?

[bdreason]

Humans.

[Jailblazers7]

I didn't say it was at odds, but you said you could see the argument that humans are the least important species on the planet, which is what i disagreed with. I'm not at all saying it isn't worth preserving life on Earth, but that if humans didn't exist there wouldn't be a species capable of even contemplating or appreciating life or existence, and thus the existence of life would become meaningless (at least to me it would). So i find it hard to square your above post with any argument close to humans being the least important species. In fact, any species intelligent enough to inquire about these things would have to already be outside the food chain (or at least on the way to doing so).

You agree that nature is nasty, brutish etc. on a subjective, individual level at least (and certainly before the most recent 10,000 years), but the only species on earth that can view ecosystems in anything like their totality is the human one; how can something be beautiful with no one to observe it?

Yeah true, I jumped out too far on that one. I always get a little extreme when I think about big picture stuff like this because I have a lot of what ifs running through my head.

[Draz]

I hate white rhinos, biggest liars on the planet. Not even really white. Plus, if humans were going extinct, do you really think the white rhinos would be trying to save us? No. To hell with them

[Nick Young]

This is natural selection at work boys. Evolution. Adapt or perish. Deal with it.

[JohnnySic]

This is natural selection at work boys. Evolution. Adapt or perish. Deal with it.

Right! And when that super virus shows up and turns humans into liquid sh!t, dont cry about what a *tragedy* it is. Its just natural selection!

[GimmeThat]

you just know there are some humans that are upset at the fact they can't breed white rhinos themselves and they need male/female white rhinos to make it happen.

you can say I am not a human.

[masonanddixon]

The earth can realistically only sustain about a maximum of 500 million humans.

It will be a trash can by 2025.