Handchecking is alive and well

[3ball]

upper body leaning forward where his waist is a good 20-25 inches

It's funny how much you want to stick to your guns, despite being so obviously wrong.

You're forgetting that the defender is ALSO bent over and in a stance, so it cancels out and the defender is NOT bodying the TT player when hand-checking the waist

I'm going to show you some gifs.. Prepare to be ethered

[3ball]

c'mon prometheus... how many times have i ethered you now... it's gotta be like, 4 or 5 times now.. remember how you didn't think lebron dominated the ball?... lol
.

[sd3035]

Jordan was the most coddled player in history, he wasn't even allowed to be defended

[3ball]

Now that I ethered your argument about hand-checking a TT player, let's get back to your original erroneous point about how hand-checking occurs mostly when the ballhandler's back is turned.

That's obviously wrong - hand-checking is equally prevalent when ballhandlers are facing and it's MOST prevalent and effective [COLOR="Navy"]during the act of driving[/COLOR], like the gifs below (these are fouls in today's game):

[3ball]

[COLOR="Red"]Jordan was coddled the most of anyone - he wasn't even allowed to be defended[/COLOR]

[COLOR="black"]The defense Curry faces is like flag football by comparison - no touch, hands-off, league-mandated space between players on perimeter:[/COLOR]





No comparison

[Da_Realist]

Isiah Thomas: “Listen, we’ve had great offensive players before in this league. I played against two of the best — Michael Jordan and Kareem. Michael would get 30 and 40 against us, but I don’t remember him getting them without a hand in his face.

The rules favor the offense now; that’s the way it is in all sports. That’s what people want to see. How good would Larry Bird shoot with the way defense is played now, especially on the perimeter?

I played on some of the best defensive teams ever, my whole life — high school, college, pros — when you could actually get close to the ball. Now, with the rules being what they are, you have too many people can’t play defense, make no attempt. Right now perimeter defense in the N.B.A. is kind of the worst I’ve ever seen, an absolute joke."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/sp...stmas-day.html

[Blue&Orange]

Isiah Thomas: “Listen, we’ve had great offensive players before in this league. I played against two of the best — Michael Jordan and Kareem. Michael would get 30 and 40 against us, but I don’t remember him getting them without a hand in his face.

The rules favor the offense now; that’s the way it is in all sports. That’s what people want to see. How good would Larry Bird shoot with the way defense is played now, especially on the perimeter?

I played on some of the best defensive teams ever, my whole life — high school, college, pros — when you could actually get close to the ball. Now, with the rules being what they are, you have too many people can’t play defense, make no attempt. Right now perimeter defense in the N.B.A. is kind of the worst I’ve ever seen, an absolute joke."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/sp...stmas-day.html

Well the other day i say Kirk Hinrich beat his defender because he can't touch him, and then slowly proceed to the paint and slowly make a layup. I loled. It's not just that you can't do nothing to perimeter players, it's also the constant emptiness of the paint.


Step 1 draft athletic players in hope that somehow they learn to play the game.
step 2 they can't
step 3 change the rules so that is easier to score.

[GIF REACTION]

Many scrubs averaged big numbers in the 80's and 90's

Handchecking has ALWAYS been a foul... Since the 1979 rule introduction

They changed the reinterpretation in 2004 off season after the 2004 finals where Detroit beat Los Angeles

After that reinterpretation, they explicitly called physical contact on the perimeter tight, as well as stringent calling of the 3 in the key. They called it tight for 2-3 seasons as is with any new rule... After time the referees lax, the style to win changes and the interpretation changes. It wasn't until the 2008 Celtics came, that ideas on defense and winning changed.

Just as they no-called Illegal defense in the late 80's and 90's, they no-call physical contact on the perimeter... Even though it has always been this way. Watch any Golden State Warriors game, or Spurs, or Cleveland. There are plenty of handchecking moments. Watch the 2008 NBA finals in its entirety. Kobe got handchecked as much as Jordan ever did.

We haven't even talked about how much better team defenses have become. The traditional bigman became redundant because there was no rule change on the inside, the game has always been the same at the rim. Bigs have always been at the brunt of officiating. Only except, defenses can now move around, flood the strong side, and neutralize the offense and talent of a traditional big. The post up can only work today, given it has full court awareness and willing passing. The Cavs are a perfect example of this.

Cliffs: Handchecking has always been a foul, the rule was called tight for a couple seasons then as a different style of winning came about, the referees changed their interpretations. Of course this is pretty much all irrelevant in the playoffs anyways.

PS: James Harden isn't evidence of anything. Star players have ALWAYS gotten freebees at the line.

[GIF REACTION]

I mean we can talk about how 3 in the key is completely irrelevant today... Paint camping is pretty much legal... Here's a recent Mark Cuban story;

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14...-three-seconds

DALLAS -- Owner Mark Cuban made a point to complain about what he considers an NBA officiating trend after his Dallas Mavericks lost 98-95 to the Atlanta Hawks on Wednesday night.

Cuban expressed concern that referees are ignoring a league emphasis to call defensive three-second violations.

"I know it's not the league, so somewhere along the line, officials have chosen not to call defensive three seconds," Cuban said, addressing reporters in the middle of the locker room after the game, a rarity for him. "You guys can probably hear us counting, right? Five, six, seven. ... We've had games, multiple games already -- the last one we turned in, the league agreed that they missed nine defensive-three calls. And these aren't, 'OK, it's 3.1, it's 3.2 and it's wrong.' These are six, seven, eight and, in one case, nine seconds of standing in there. Again, you probably heard us screaming and yelling from the bench and counting to five and six.

"It's not a tough rule. I don't know what's happened, but it's changed the game," Cuban said. "We've even started to tell our guys, 'Just stand in the paint and don't move,' but some teams have figured it out before us. So it's just wrong."

Cuban spoke with a calm, measured tone during his five-minute postgame session with the media, which started when he walked into the middle of the locker room before players arrived and told reporters he had something he wanted to address.

"Again, I don't know who came up with the decision," he said. "The league just sent out a memo that defensive three was an emphasis, so I don't think it came from the league. Somewhere underneath them, the decision has been made, I don't know by who, not to call defensive three."

According to the website nbasavant.com, which tracks all violations, 133 defensive three-second violations have been called this season, which is slightly past the quarter point. There were 493 defensive three-second violations last season.

Dallas shot 36 percent from the floor in the loss to the Hawks, but Cuban said his complaints weren't specific to this loss.

"We were just missing shots," Cuban said. "This is not relevant to the game today. This is a bigger issue, right? Whether it impacts us or it impacts someone else, here I am saying that we're telling our guys just to camp in the paint, so it's not about this game or any other game. This is just one more example. Something happened.

"Something's going on, and I have no idea what it is. When I ask the league, they say, 'Oh, there's nothing going on. They're just missed.' Something's going on. Something's happening, and I don't think it's at the league level, but officials have chosen not to call defensive three seconds and, in some cases, offensive three seconds."

Cuban has been fined several times for complaining about officiating during his 16-season ownership tenure, paying well into seven figures for those infractions. However, he has chosen his spots more carefully in recent years.

Since Adam Silver has been commissioner, the only fine publicly announced for Cuban was for discussing free-agency moves in several interviews during the league's moratorium period in July.

"The rule is not a difficult rule," Cuban said. "Either you're in there and actively guarding, or you're not. It's not hard to see. It was crazy. ... So something's going on. It's not relevant specifically to the Mavs. It's relevant specifically to the league and how it's being officiated. And I have no idea, so as is my nature, if I can't get answers, I'll let other people help me get answers."

[GIF REACTION]

So defenses can essentially do WHATEVER they like

The only restriction is a rule that can be so easily averted (simply by stretching the arm out and stepping outside the key quickly), and it is barely if ever called.

Watch any Sacramento Kings game. Cousins paint camps indefinitely.

[Blue&Orange]

lol i don't know maybe the refs acknowledge the bullshit the game became with the way people want them to ref and are doing something about.

and yes lol at idiots still trying to bring up random exceptions that go against the norm to prove something that everyone that isn't braindead know it isn't the truth.


It's like saying traveling is allowed because sometimes refs allow players to travel, lol. Yes it's how dumb you sound gayreaction.


only a complete retard would say hand checking and paint camping is a feature in todays league.

[Nikola_]

how do u call this then

[GIF REACTION]

lol i don't know maybe the refs acknowledge the bullshit the game became with the way people want them to ref and are doing something about.

and yes lol at idiots still trying to bring up random exceptions that go against the norm to prove something that everyone that isn't braindead know it isn't the truth.


It's like saying traveling is allowed because sometimes refs allow players to travel, lol. Yes it's how dumb you sound gayreaction.


only a complete retard would say hand checking and paint camping is a feature in todays league.

Dude I've researched this topic more than anyone on this forum. Your argument is stupid and avoiding reality. I could say the exact same thing about Illegal defense and the 1979 rule on handchecking but we both know that isn't how it went down.

[UK2K]

I've been saying this for years now. Hand-checking is completely legal in the playoffs anyways. The rule is really a null-factor. They called it extremely tight for 2 years, along with 3 seconds in the key... But like any rule, the interpretation changes and they don't call it as much. Go watch any of the Celtics big three playoff runs, Golden state's last season, or Memphis. Loads of hand-checking.

Kobe vs the celtics in 2008 I believe was particularly hand-checking

No.

That's not hand checking.

Real hand checking is a true test of skill. You have to get by a defender, AND he can grab you. That separates men from boys.

MJ would score 80 a night in this league.

[GIF REACTION]

No.

That's not hand checking.

Real hand checking is a true test of skill. You have to get by a defender, AND he can grab you. That separates men from boys.

MJ would score 80 a night in this league.

I hope this is sarcasm Jimmy