Draymond responds to Marion’s claim he was a better defender.

[Carbine]

Marion might be an inch or two taller than Draymond but Draymond is definitely built better for basketball purposes. He has great strength, and weighs more.

He also plays bigger. Dray has a 7'1 wingspan and Marion 6'10 wingspan.

[1987_Lakers]

So you have Jordan over Pip then on defense?

From 90-93 MJ was the better defender of the two. From '95-'98 it was obvious Pippen had more defensive impact.

Draymond played on some teams with good defenders, but 2022 is a good example of his defensive impact. Curry, Poole, & Klay were not defensive players that year, only player besides Draymond who's defense stood out that year was Wiggins, but the Warriors still had the #1 defense.

That season without Draymond they had a Defensive Rating of 112, which is pretty average.

With Draymond their Defensive Rating was 104.2, which is elite.

Marion didn't have that defensive impact.

[HoopsNY]

You guys are nuts. Draymond is the better defender. Draymond anchored a bunch of top tier defenses and actually has a DPOY, Marion never even made an All-defensive team (which is weird to say) and those Suns teams always struggled defensively even with Marion. Both could guard multiple positions, but Draymond was better at defending bigs.

Not sure if that's a fair assessment as far as Marion's teams are concerned. Look at each year's DRTGs.

PHO '00: 3rd
PHO '01: 2nd
PHO '02: 12th
PHO '03: 11th
PHO '04: 24th
PHO '05: 17th
PHO '06: 16th
PHO '07: 13th
PHO '08: 16th *Marion gets traded here. PHO's DRTG w/Marion was 106.7 and 111.6 without him. They probably finish 13th with him.

In 2009 Miami had a 106.2 DRTG w/Marion and 110.2 without him. They probably finish 8th that season if he remains there the full season.

The wheels had already fallen off by then but I think he did have a positive impact overall even judging by what his teams did with him.

*The first two years are high probably because of Kidd but Marion played a role on those teams as well.

[1987_Lakers]

I dont believe Shawn Marion was a better defender than Dray but he damn sure was a way better talent and player. Guy was monster athlete.

I think his offense is a bit overrated, his efficiency rose significantly once he got to play with Nash then it went back to mediocre when he left Phoenix, wasn't really a playmaker either.

[1987_Lakers]

Not sure if that's a fair assessment as far as Marion's teams are concerned. Look at each year's DRTGs.

PHO '00: 3rd
PHO '01: 2nd
PHO '02: 12th
PHO '03: 11th
PHO '04: 24th
PHO '05: 17th
PHO '06: 16th
PHO '07: 13th
PHO '08: 16th *Marion gets traded here. PHO's DRTG w/Marion was 106.7 and 111.6 without him. They probably finish 13th with him.

In 2009 Miami had a 106.2 DRTG w/Marion and 110.2 without him. They probably finish 8th that season if he remains there the full season.

The wheels had already fallen off by then but I think he did have a positive impact overall even judging by what his teams did with him.

Not close to the impact Draymond had from the 2022 numbers I just posted.

[Carbine]

I would rather have Draymond as my #3 guy than Marion. Neither are clear #2 guys on a true contender.

Draymond gives the team an edge, an attitude and swag that Marion doesn't provide. Also a much much better passer, he can make PG type passes in the half court. Better defensive anchor.

"Way better player" as the troll says would be putting all of the emphasis on PPG and disregarding everything else.

[HoopsNY]

Not close to the impact Draymond had from the 2022 numbers I just posted.

Yea I understand that. Though one counter to that would be Draymond's impact in 2020. They lose KD and Klay, and with Dray, they had a 114.3 DRTG, 115.3 without him.

I'm not doubting Dray's impact here. I'm just saying that Marion was also impactful and his teams being bad defensively isn't exactly true.

[SouBeachTalents]

I would rather have Draymond as my #3 guy than Marion. Neither are clear #2 guys on a true contender.

Draymond gives the team an edge, an attitude and swag that Marion doesn't provide. Also a much much better passer, he can make PG type passes in the half court. Better defensive anchor.

"Way better player" as the troll says would be putting all of the emphasis on PPG and disregarding everything else.

Agreed with everything here. Marion is a better scorer but legitimately had no playmaking ability. People can debate how effective Dray would be outside of the Warriors, but imo 2016 Dray was better and more impactful than Marion ever was.

Claiming Marion is way, way better is complete hyperbole.

[Norcaliblunt]

Marion vs Iggy is the more interesting debate IMO.

And then Dray vs Diaw based just on skill set and pure talent obviously not careers.

[tpols]

From 90-93 MJ was the better defender of the two. From '95-'98 it was obvious Pippen had more defensive impact.

Draymond played on some teams with good defenders, but 2022 is a good example of his defensive impact. Curry, Poole, & Klay were not defensive players that year, only player besides Draymond who's defense stood out that year was Wiggins, but the Warriors still had the #1 defense.

That season without Draymond they had a Defensive Rating of 112, which is pretty average.

With Draymond their Defensive Rating was 104.2, which is elite.

Marion didn't have that defensive impact.

Looney, Wiggins, Klay, and Curry are all statistically plus defenders. GPII and Otto Porter too. With Wiggins being extremely talented and Klay has always been an intelligent defender. Looney as well. Curry has a stereotype about him he isn't a good defender but every single advanced metric says he is.

Marion played with Nash and Amare and worst of all Dantoni... who admitted to not even drilling defense. You can't have a great defense when none of your teammates play defense and your coach doesn't even coach defense.

We saw old Marion with old Kidd lock dudes up in the 2011 playoffs to a very strong degree. Great defense involves defensive teammates.

[Norcaliblunt]

Looney, Wiggins, Klay, and Curry are all statistically plus defenders. GPII and Otto Porter too. With Wiggins being extremely talented and Klay has always been an intelligent defender. Looney as well. Curry has a stereotype about him he isn't a good defender but every single advanced metric says he is.

Marion played with Nash and Amare and worst of all Dantoni... who admitted to not even drilling defense. You can't have a great defense when none of your teammates play defense and your coach doesn't even coach defense.

We saw old Marion with old Kidd lock dudes up in the 2011 playoffs to a very strong degree. Great defense involves defensive teammates.

If I remember correctly Phoenix in 06 when Amare was out had a top 10 defense while running a front court of Marion, Diaw, Kurt Thomas along with Raja Bell in the back court. Then Thomas went down and the defense suffered.

As crazy as it sounds that team may have been better without Amare, they definitely were defensively, and if Kurt Thomas doesn’t get hurt they win the chip that year. They came close to a finals appearance running Diaw at center for long stretches.

[tpols]

I think his offense is a bit overrated, his efficiency rose significantly once he got to play with Nash then it went back to mediocre when he left Phoenix, wasn't really a playmaker either.

Yea he was a rebounder, scorer, athlete, defender... the Matrix was the nickname. Dray in the warriors last ring averaged like 7 ppg. They used to call him the triple single. Marion could hang 20/10 on you in his sleep while playing the best D on the whole team. They're different players but prime Shawn Marion had way more talent than dray. Old heads would know.

[tpols]

If I remember correctly Phoenix in 06 when Amare was out had a top 10 defense while running a front court of Marion, Diaw, Kurt Thomas along with Raja Bell in the back court. Then Thomas went down and the defense suffered.

As crazy as it sounds that team may have been better without Amare, they definitely were defensively, and if Kurt Thomas doesn’t get hurt they win the chip that year. They came close to a finals appearance running Diaw at center for long stretches.

I feel like the biggest problem was dantoni. His style made for great offense but poor defense. Still was probably good enough to win stern screwed them in 2007. Amare had the tool box to be a very good defender if he was coached into it by like... Larry Brown or something... but he had the opposite of that. His offense was tremendously explosive though. He hung almost 40ppg series on Tim Duncan.

[Im Still Ballin]

Marion might be an inch or two taller than Draymond but Draymond is definitely built better for basketball purposes. He has great strength, and weighs more.

He also plays bigger. Dray has a 7'1 wingspan and Marion 6'10 wingspan.

There's no official measurement for Marion but he's undeniably longer than 6'10". He has a freakish wingspan and standing reach. He's got the Kevin McHale/Nate Thurmond build only in wing format. It wasn't just his quick and high jumping that made him able to defend frontcourt players.

Marion is more in that 7'2" to 7'5" range. Hard to eyeball it but he has the proportions of a guy who's very disproportionately built regarding limb length. Longer than Dray for sure.

Here's Shawn blocking KD's jump shot:

[tpols]

There's no official measurement for Marion but he's undeniably longer than 6'10". He has a freakish wingspan and standing reach. He's got the Kevin McHale/Nate Thurmond build only in wing format. It wasn't just his quick and high jumping that made him able to defend frontcourt players.

Marion is more in that 7'2" to 7'5" range. Hard to eyeball it but he has the proportions of a guy who's very disproportionately built regarding limb length. Longer than Dray for sure.

Here's Shawn blocking KD's jump shot:

He had such a short neck for his frame. It's like his head sat directly on his shoulders. Dude had the body of somebody approaching 6'11 but the finesse and quickness of a guard.