Best Player Post Jordan (1999) who is it?

[allball]

If you're talking purely about talent then Kobe is the best player since Jordan. if youre speaking of accomplishment then I would say Duncan. Shaq has been the most dominant player offensively but that doesnt mean he's the best all-around player in the league.

[Knoe Itawl]

a dominate guard should always be consired better than a dominate center they do way more all shaq had to do is flop his big ass under the rim no tryna undermind him but when it comes to being the best player post Jordan its kobe get over it.

Seriously, people like this should be banned. But the mods have their heads so far up Laker ass, they likely cheer this sort of thing.

[plowking]

If you're talking purely about talent then Kobe is the best player since Jordan. if youre speaking of accomplishment then I would say Duncan. Shaq has been the most dominant player offensively but that doesnt mean he's the best all-around player in the league.

How? Shaq is better individually again. A team led by Shaq would lead you the furthest into the playoffs.

Shaq is simply a better player.

[Knoe Itawl]

If you're talking purely about talent then Kobe is the best player since Jordan. if youre speaking of accomplishment then I would say Duncan. Shaq has been the most dominant player offensively but that doesnt mean he's the best all-around player in the league.

Talent does not equal best. Why is it so hard for some people to get that through their thick skulls? Derrick Coleman had all the talent in the world. Does that make him the best PF of all time?

And Shaq was not just dominant offensively, do you understand basketball? He was also a dominant rebounder, shot blocker and intimidator. His presence alone deterred people from going to the rim.

Also, screw best "all around player". that also doesn't equal best. Scottie Pippen is a better all around player than Shaq. So you're saying you'd rather have Scottie over prime Shaq?

Please learn basketball and stop talking foolishness.

[allball]

Talent does not equal best. Why is it so hard for some people to get that through their thick skulls? Derrick Coleman had all the talent in the world. Does that make him the best PF of all time?

And Shaq was not just dominant offensively, do you understand basketball? He was also a dominant rebounder, shot blocker and intimidator. His presence alone deterred people from going to the rim.

Also, screw best "all around player". that also doesn't equal best. Scottie Pippen is a better all around player than Shaq. So you're saying you'd rather have Scottie over prime Shaq?

Please learn basketball and stop talking foolishness.

ha ha. you distort my words. in terms of basketball talent and skill plus numerous other factors, Kobe has been the best player since Jordan. period. not every talented player is a great player which is true.

Shaq was a solid rebounder but certainly not dominant. considering his size and height and lack of tenaciousness in going after the ball, he is a slightly above average rebounder. He averaged over 13 rebounds 3 times in his career, two of which were his first 2 years in the league. He never ONCE led the league in rebounding.


Shaq was a good shot blocker on the strong side. but how often did he face up on an all star center or PF and block his shot with great footwork? how many times did he rotate weakside and stuff an all star caliber wing player say like a Vince Carter? how many defensive plays to win games?

if you were to look at his stats you could ascertain that he must have been dominant in those areas but I would disagree. Hakeem was more dominant in those areas than Shaq. Duncan controls more aspects of the game on both ends of the floor. Rodman was a dominant rebounder because those rebounds controlled the game. D. Robinson was a dominant defender.

no I wouldnt take Pippen over Shaq. he's a great center. would probably take him over Kobe. doesnt mean Shaqs a better player. he's a dominant inside presence for sure.

Shaq was a great player in his prime def one of the best of all time but has always been surrounded by a lot of talent. Kobe has proven he could take a team to the Finals without another superstar on the team.

Kobe was just as dominant in the 01 and 02 playoffs as Shaq prompting Shaq to call Kobe "... the best player in the NBA"

and I'm not a big Kobe fan. never have been. I just know basketball.

[gotbacon23]

i think it has to be TD or Shaq without question.

[Knoe Itawl]

ha ha. you distort my words. in terms of basketball talent and skill plus numerous other factors, Kobe has been the best player since Jordan. period. not every talented player is a great player which is true.

lol @ "period". That's garbage. Tim Duncan and Shaq have not only accomplished more than Kobe, but have been more dominant players as THE MAIN MEN on their teams. for you to say "period" as if it's a given that Kobe's been better shows you really don't understand basketball like you say you do. Scoring 81 points on the worst defensive team in the league during a regular season game is nice and all, but it doesn't make you the best.

Shaq was a solid rebounder but certainly not dominant. considering his size and height and lack of tenaciousness in going after the ball, he is a slightly above average rebounder. He averaged over 13 rebounds 3 times in his career, two of which were his first 2 years in the league. He never ONCE led the league in rebounding.

The point is that his value is more than his offensive abilities. shaq was a package of intimidation, both on the offensive and defensiv ends in his prime. Something that will never show up on the stat sheet is how many drives he intimidated simply by being on the floor and players not wanting to take it to him. And he often put up great rebounding games in the playoffs, you know where it counts the most.

Shaq was a good shot blocker on the strong side. but how often did he face up on an all star center or PF and block his shot with great footwork? how many times did he rotate weakside and stuff an all star caliber wing player say like a Vince Carter? how many defensive plays to win games?

if you were to look at his stats you could ascertain that he must have been dominant in those areas but I would disagree. Hakeem was more dominant in those areas than Shaq. Duncan controls more aspects of the game on both ends of the floor. Rodman was a dominant rebounder because those rebounds controlled the game. D. Robinson was a dominant defender.

When did I ever say Shaq was as good a defender as Duncan or Hakeem? I'm talking about his PACKAGE. You implied that he was only valuable offensively when that's simply not the case.

no I wouldnt take Pippen over Shaq. he's a great center. would probably take him over Kobe. doesnt mean Shaqs a better player. he's a dominant inside presence for sure.

Sorry, but this is just stupid. Shaq's not a better player than Kobe but you would take him over him? You're trying to twist and turn and make excuses but it's simple. It doesn't matter who's more "talented" it doesn't matter who the "best overall player" is. It doesn't matter who can make the most difficult three point shots All that matters is who is the most EFFECTIVE player, and who's going to have the greatest impact on winning games. That's who the BEST player is. So for all of Scottie's overall abilities, and for all of Kobe's overall abilities, no one with any sense is going to take them over a prime Shaq. Why? Because he's a BETTER, MORE EFFECTIVE, whatever you want to call it, player than they are.

Shaq was a great player in his prime def one of the best of all time but has always been surrounded by a lot of talent. Kobe has proven he could take a team to the Finals without another superstar on the team.

Again, this is stupid. Kobe took a team with excellent players like Gasol, Odom, solid role players who stepped up in Fisher, Vujacic, etc. who just happened to be coached by A NINE RING HOLDING COACH. So for you to pretend that he just took a bunch of junk to the Finals is stupid. And how did he play when he GOT to the Finals? Like trash, which he has done 4 out of 5 times now. Shaq dominated every Finals he was in in his prime.

Kobe was just as dominant in the 01 and 02 playoffs as Shaq prompting Shaq to call Kobe "... the best player in the NBA"

So this explains why Kobe has played poorly in 4 out of the 5 Finals trips he's been to? And you don't know basketball if you don't realize how a player of Shaq's magnitude helped Kobe's game by drawing defensive pressure away from him. When you played the Lakers, teams were concerned about Shaq first and second and THEN everyone else. It's simple basketball. You worry more about the 7'1 340 pound top 10 all time player, dominant low post presence before you worry about a sg.

By the way, Shaq also called DWade the best player in the world. Do you agree with that? If not, including what Shaq said about Kobe in your argument is meaningless.

and I'm not a big Kobe fan. never have been. I just know basketball.

If you call Kobe the best player since Jordan, you don't know anything about basketball.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

threads like this should always come with qualifiers...like a definition of "Best".
"Best" and most "Impactful" MAY be considered two different things.

Generally speaking, a SG is supposed to be a primary scorer, whereas a PG is supposed to be a distributor. Of course, those are generalizations. therefore, a PG is MUCH MORE likely to "make his teammates better".

A center can have a greater "impact" than any player, given his position, both offensively and defensively, in the paint.

In the end, I would say that the most "impactful" player, post-MJ, has been a healthy, motivated Shaq....followed closely by TD.

[jjayfive]

wow..another kobe topic...

[Knoe Itawl]

threads like this should always come with qualifiers...like a definition of "Best".
"Best" and most "Impactful" MAY be considered two different things.

Generally speaking, a SG is supposed to be a primary scorer, whereas a PG is supposed to be a distributor. Of course, those are generalizations. therefore, a PG is MUCH MORE likely to "make his teammates better".

A center can have a greater "impact" than any player, given his position, both offensively and defensively, in the paint.

In the end, I would say that the most "impactful" player, post-MJ, has been a healthy, motivated Shaq....followed closely by TD.

Quite frankly, I mostly see this differentiation between "skilled" "most impactful" "best", etc. made by Kobe fans. They usually come up with garbage like "he's the most skilled player ever" or "he's the most complete offensive player ever" and this kind of thing in order to make him greater than he is.

As far as I'm concerned "best" means "most impactful" because no one gives a shyt about how many fancy crossovers you can do, how many off balance three pointers you can make or any of that shyt if they have to choose betwen that and a prime Shaq. They're going to pick the BEST player, ie the player that gives them the BEST chance of winning.

That's the way you should look at it. BEST player = player that gives you the BEST chance of winning.

[TmacsRockets]

Kobe is like 25th all time in playoff ppg. Vince Carter, t-mac, Iverson and literally every wing player in the league is better than him come playoff time. Iverson has 4 scoring titles, t-mac has 2 and Kobe has 2.

[Dbrog]

I'm talking about his PACKAGE.
.................................................. ....................
If you call Kobe the best player since Jordan, you don't know anything about basketball.

If you would learn to read, he said Kobe is the most talented/skilled player since Jordan (which he is and it's not close). Allball also said if you include everything in the discussion aka the best player it would be Duncan. I can see where some people can say shaq, but I would personally go with Duncan as well. He has never really had a legit allstar with him. Just very good role players.

Oh, and please stop talking about Shaq's package...that's gross.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Quite frankly, I mostly see this differentiation between "skilled" "most impactful" "best", etc. made by Kobe fans. They usually come up with garbage like "he's the most skilled player ever" or "he's the most complete offensive player ever" and this kind of thing in order to make him greater than he is.

As far as I'm concerned "best" means "most impactful" because no one gives a shyt about how many fancy crossovers you can do, how many off balance three pointers you can make or any of that shyt if they have to choose betwen that and a prime Shaq. They're going to pick the BEST player, ie the player that gives them the BEST chance of winning.

That's the way you should look at it. BEST player = player that gives you the BEST chance of winning.

Diff folks look at it diff ways. NBA personnel have said repeatedly that Kobe is the "best all-around player since MJ". But that, imo, does not mean he is the most impactful. Outside of MJ, a SG has never been the most impactful player. Its almost always a PG or a Center ("the two hardest positions to fill", as they say). Occasionally a guy like Karl Malone, Barkley, or TD comes along and dominates.

The "Best" player depends entirely on how someone chooses to define "Best".

[Kobe24]

Shaq
TD
AI
Kobe

like that

Please delete your account.

[guy]

Diff folks look at it diff ways. NBA personnel have said repeatedly that Kobe is the "best all-around player since MJ". But that, imo, does not mean he is the most impactful. Outside of MJ, a SG has never been the most impactful player. Its almost always a PG or a Center ("the two hardest positions to fill", as they say). Occasionally a guy like Karl Malone, Barkley, or TD comes along and dominates.

The "Best" player depends entirely on how someone chooses to define "Best".

Well the whole point of the game is to win, so the most appropriate definition is the player that can contribute the most to wins. So with that definition, I don't see how anyone can argue Kobe or anyone else over Shaq or Duncan since 99.