MJ was more dominant in 97' & 98' runs than Lebron's 12' & 13

[3ball]

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[COLOR="White"]..........[/COLOR][COLOR="darkRed"]PROPORTION (%) OF TEAM PTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER ON FLOOR[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3...... 40.9...... 50.4 [COLOR="Green"]<---- these are links to nba.com data[/COLOR]
JORDAN 1998... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1

LEBRON 2012... 34.2..... 33.8..... 34.5..... 34.9...... 30.0...... 33.3
LEBRON 2013... 32.1..... 32.1..... 30.6..... 36.0...... 29.3...... 39.1




[COLOR="darkRed"]PROPORTION OF TEAM POINTS + ASSISTS WHILE PLAYER ON FLOOR[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 64.0..... 84.5...... 73.6...... 91.1

LEBRON 2012... 69.7..... 63.7...... 72.5...... 62.7
LEBRON 2013... 67.0..... 75.2...... 75.9...... 75.1




[COLOR="darkRed"]PROPORTION OF TEAM PTS + AST WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR [COLOR="navy"]MINUS PROPORTION OF TO'S[/COLOR][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 40.8..... 51.2...... 53.9...... 48.2
JORDAN 1998... 38.8..... 52.0...... 41.1...... 52.4

LEBRON 2012... 39.1..... 31.6...... 39.7...... 34.1
LEBRON 2013... 38.1..... 45.7...... 51.9...... 46.5



[COLOR="Red"]CLIFFS:[/color] [COLOR="Navy"]OLD Jordan won his last 2 championships while carrying a bigger load than PRIME Lebron carried while winning his only 2 championships.[/COLOR]

(btw, regarding the stats that subtract turnovers - the math works out correctly - for instance, if a team has 5 assists and 5 TO's in the 4th quarter, and Lebron has 1 assist and 1 TO, then he had 20% of his team's assists and 20% of their TO's, so it's a wash)
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[AirBonner]

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[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentages of team points + assists - turnovers while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 40.8..... 51.2...... 53.9...... 48.2
JORDAN 1998... 38.8..... 52.0...... 41.1...... 52.4

LEBRON 2012... 39.1..... 31.6...... 39.7...... 34.1
LEBRON 2013... 38.1..... 45.7...... 51.9...... 46.5



[COLOR="Red"]Not even close - old man Jordan destroying prime Lebron[/COLOR]

agree. against inferior competition.

[3ball]

agree. against inferior competition.

Actually, the 1998 Utah Jazz had a 100.3 playoff DRtg.

That's lower than anything Lebron has ever faced in the Finals..

[AirBonner]

Actually, the 1998 Utah Jazz had a 100.3 playoff DRtg.

That's lower than anything Lebron has ever faced in the Finals..

again against inferior competition

[3ball]

again against inferior competition

The the 1998 Jazz destroyed Popovich/Duncan/Robinson's 56-win Spurs team in 5 games in WCSF..

Duncan/Popovich were no competition.

[3ball]

again against inferior competition (even though the 1998 Jazz destroyed Pop/Duncan/Robinson's 56-win Spurs in 5 games during ECSF)

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[COLOR="DarkRed"]Lebron choked and [COLOR="Red"]missed the walk-off attempt[/COLOR] - he needed Ray Allen to save him:[/COLOR]






[COLOR="DarkRed"]Otoh Jordan MADE the exact same walk-off attempt in his first meeting against Duncan/Popovich to send the game into OT:[/COLOR]






[COLOR="DarkRed"]After hitting the walk-off, MJ dominated OT, including 2 dunks over Duncan:[/COLOR]






[COLOR="Navy"]In his 2nd meeting against Duncan, MJ dominated Duncan even more thoroughly:[/COLOR]









[COLOR="Navy"]It's obvious that Jordan only DOMINATED Duncan and guys like Duncan - they weren't "rivals" like they are for Lebron.. .. 6/6[/COLOR]

[LAKingKobe]

Don't really care what you show.
90s were an era of weaker teams.
2012 Thunder and 2013 Spurs would sweep the Jazz and all the other teams Jordan faced to be honest.
As for bron vs Jordan. They were playing some of the greatest basketball ever played in the pkayoffs. I'll give the edge to Bron because he had to carry his team a bit more while Joddan had Pippen and weaker competition.

[Smoke117]

1-9...and you're demented. Nobody cares. That's what you don't seem to realize about every single one of your threads...NOBODY CARES. Only you care about this shit...so write it in your journal and stop making threads here...then the only one who will read it is the only one who cares...you.

[raprap]

[3ball]

Don't really care what you show.

90s were an era of weaker teams.
2012 Thunder and 2013 Spurs would sweep the Jazz and all the other teams Jordan faced to be honest.

Apparently, you're unaware of what happened in 1998 Playoffs WCSF - the Utah Jazz destroyed Popovich/Duncan/Robinson in 5 games (Pop's Spurs won 56 games that year)..

Duncan/Popovich were no competition for Jordan - he destroyed Pop's Spurs all regular season (see post #6 above) and then destroyed the same Jazz team that had crushed them in playoffs.

Btw, that 2012 Thunder team was a bunch of babies that didn't know how to play - every team that Jordan beat in the Finals would've destroyed them.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Joddan had Pippen played weaker competition.[/COLOR]

The 1998 Jazz had a lower playoff DRtg (100.3) than any team Lebron ever faced in the Finals, and they destroyed Popovich/Duncan/Robinson's Spurs in the 1998 playoffs (4-1).... So....... you're obviously wrong.

Lebron has never destroyed Duncan/Popovich, let alone Robinson too.

And today's era has weak, soft rules - this is common knowledge... Lebron's stats would be worse back then with defenders able to get in his chest and bump him around - his flopping routine would be a joke back then..

Plus he wouldn't have teammates spreading out defenders for him and he'd face crowded paints like everyone else did back then - the crowded paints would force him to pull-up from midrange like everyone else.. But his jumpshot is horrific, literally bottom of the league for most of his career.

As for bron vs Jordan. [COLOR="DarkRed"] I'll give the edge to Bron because he had to carry his team a bit more[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Navy"]That's factually incorrect - in addition to the OP stats which include assists and turnovers, just look at the scoring - it's not even close:[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]...................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3...... 40.9...... 50.4
JORDAN 1998... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1

LEBRON 2009.... 35.0..... 39.3..... 41.5..... 42.4
LEBRON 2010.... 34.6..... 44.4..... 32.6..... 40.3
LEBRON 2011.... 32.0..... 32.8..... 28.1..... 30.7...... 21.4...... 14.8
LEBRON 2012.... 34.2..... 33.8..... 34.5..... 34.9...... 30.0...... 33.3
LEBRON 2013.... 32.1..... 32.1..... 30.6..... 36.0...... 29.3...... 39.1
LEBRON 2014.... 33.1..... 38.2..... 35.3..... 32.1...... 39.6...... 29.5
LEBRON 2015.... 30.1..... 38.9..... 35.0..... 42.4...... 40.0...... 44.5
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[Lebron23]

Are you really comparing that 1997-98 Spurs team to the 2013 version? The 2013 version were much better than that team even though Duncan declined as a player.

[Cocaine80s]

Weak competition tho

[AirBonner]

Weak competition tho

truth. stats from the 90's can't translate to the present day nba.

[3ball]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Are you really comparing that 1997-98 Spurs team to the 2013 version? The 2013 version were much better than that team even though Duncan declined as a player.
[/COLOR]

Jordan and Utah destroyed Duncan and Popovich - Whereas Lebron GETS destroyed by them.

Do you see the difference?... And Duncan wasn't a shell like he is today playing 25 minutes per game, plus they had prime Robinson.

You think today's Spurs are somehow better despite less talent, while not even considering that the playing environment was completely different altogether back then... Today's Spurs have 3-point shooting and spacing that the 1998 Spurs didn't have - and neither did the Bulls or any other team back then.. The game was played WITHOUT spacing, which makes it a tougher game - everyone knows the game is tougher without spacing.. And MJ's Bulls were the kings OF that tougher game.

Also, you guys act like Lebron missing that walk-off attempt and needing Ray had something to do with the Spurs - that was just Lebron choking again, while MJ made his walk-off vs. Pop/Duncan, shown in post #6 above) - and obviously, he came through in Finals (6/6).. In 1997 alone, he hit GW in Games 1 and 5 (flu game), and series-winning assist to Kerr in Gm 6 (which spearheaded Kerr's career).
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[3ball]

truth. stats from the 90's can't translate to the present day nba.

[COLOR="black"]If anything, stats from 1998 should be increased when comparing to today, since PPG, pace and league-wide ORtg were all much lower in 1998 than they are today, or 2013..[/COLOR]



[COLOR="Navy"]In addition to the OP stats which include assists and turnovers, here's just the scoring stats - it's not even close:[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]...................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3...... 40.9...... 50.4
JORDAN 1998... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1

LEBRON 2009.... 35.0..... 39.3..... 41.5..... 42.4
LEBRON 2010.... 34.6..... 44.4..... 32.6..... 40.3
LEBRON 2011.... 32.0..... 32.8..... 28.1..... 30.7...... 21.4...... 14.8
LEBRON 2012.... 34.2..... 33.8..... 34.5..... 34.9...... 30.0...... 33.3
LEBRON 2013.... 32.1..... 32.1..... 30.6..... 36.0...... 29.3...... 39.1
LEBRON 2014.... 33.1..... 38.2..... 35.3..... 32.1...... 39.6...... 29.5
LEBRON 2015.... 30.1..... 38.9..... 35.0..... 42.4...... 40.0...... 44.5
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