1994 Pippen should have been mvp

[Marchesk]

Don't forget MVP voters, GM's, coaches, all-NBA voters, players, and sports writers at the time.

David Robinson had 24 MVP votes to Pippen's 7 in 1994. Doesn't matter if Robinson crapped the bed in the playoffs. MVP is a regular season award.

[Roundball_Rock]

Damn, forgot Chuck Daly and the Dream Team selection committee.

[Roundball_Rock]

David Robinson had 24 MVP votes to Pippen's 7 in 1994. Doesn't matter if Robinson crapped the bed in the playoffs. MVP is a regular season award.

Goal posts shifting--yet again.

How many MVP votes did Ewing, Barkley, Shaq, Kemp!, Miller, Malone, Payton, etc. get?

[Marchesk]

Goal posts shifting--yet again.

You can't dispute the fact that the MVP is a regular season award. It just is.

How many MVP votes did Ewing, Barkley, Shaq, Kemp!, Miller, Malone, Payton, etc. get?

Are you wanting to say Pippen had a better season than some of those players? Sure. Not Shaq, though. But if you want to throw the playoffs into the mix, Hakeem had the best overall season, period. No matter how you spin it, Pippen isn't Jordan.

[Roundball_Rock]

Pippen is overrated--he somehow managed to sneak into the top 20-30 all-time by consensus. Ahead of Ewing, Drexler, Payton and light years ahead of Kemp!, Miller, etc.

Total fraud, doe? That only the few, the proud, fans of ____ (Oliver Miller?) know?

You can't dispute the fact that the MVP is a regular season award. It just is.

You guys are every way from Sunday. Post to post it shifts. Not necessarily you, but all these "Pippen sucks" peeps. Find a consistent criteria and we can evaluate all these players via it.

[Rico2016]

Pippen is overrated--he somehow managed to sneak into the top 20-30 all-time by consensus. Ahead of Ewing, Drexler, Payton and light years ahead of Kemp!, Miller, etc.

Total fraud, doe? That only the few, the proud know?



You guys are every way from Sunday. Post to post it shifts. Not necessarily you, but all these "Pippen sucks" peeps.

For three straight Finals Runs he averaged 21/9/7/2/1 on 46% in the tough 90s. In 2010's I hear he would be doing 23/10/8/3/2

But somehow that is not good as a #2 option, not even referring to the fact that he was the greatest perimeter in 90s history.

[Marchesk]

Pippen is overrated--he somehow managed to sneak into the top 20-30 all-time by consensus.

He's only overrated if you're saying Pippen was as good as the MVP winners of the 90s, or second best player to Jordan.

Ahead of Ewing, Drexler, Payton and light years ahead of Kemp!, Miller, etc.

It really does help to have Jordan as your teammate and the six rings. Are Ewing and Drexler not winning rings with MJ? But okay, I can see the argument for Pippen over some of those guys.

[Roundball_Rock]

For three straight Finals Runs he averaged 21/9/7/2/1 on 46% in the tough 90s. In 2010's I hear he would be doing 23/10/8/3/2

But somehow that is not good as a #2 option, not even referring to the fact that he was the greatest perimeter in 90s history.

That is why they cannot formulate a single consistent metric to assess him with which they are willing to apply to any other player. Go through this thread. Whenever their own "logic" gets applied to another player, what is their response?

[Reggie43]

Knowing his true value = Hating Pippen?

Was he some irreplaceable legend wherein its blasphemous to compare him to his peers regardless who was better?

[Roundball_Rock]

He's only overrated if you're saying Pippen was as good as the MVP winners of the 90s, or second best player to Jordan.


It really does help to have Jordan as your teammate and the six rings. Are Ewing and Drexler not winning rings with MJ? But okay, I can see the argument for Pippen over some of those guys.

Decade long rankings aren't the same as year-to-year rankings. That is a sleight of hand MJ stans like to pull (not saying you).

Here are my 90's as a whole rankings: 1) Jordan 2) Hakeem 3) Malone 4) Barkley 5) Robinson 6) Pippen 7) Ewing 8 ) Shaq 9) Stockton 10) Drexler. HM: Payton (role player until 94', though.)

All-time is different, year-to-year is different. Barkley>Malone prime versus prime, for example. Shaq>all these guys but MJ all-time. Stockton's peak was really low for a player of his caliber. Give me peak Drexler or peak Payton over him but longevity matters. Etc. What would be your 90's top 10?

As to Jordan, it is unclear what the impact was. The entire argument against Pippen revolves around him playing with Jordan. His accolades skyrocketed without MJ.

Pippen without MJ (2 years): 1st team all-NBA, 1st team all-NBA, 3rd and 7th in MVP.
Pippen with MJ (1988-1993, 1996-1998): one 1st team, 2 second teams, 2 third teams, 5th and 9th in MVP (highs).

Robinson played with Duncan and won 2 rings. Drexler won a ring with Hakeem. Those don't even come up when their legacies are discussed. Drexler losing two finals comes up a lot more. We also see it argued that Miller losing ECF's>Klay Thompson winning rings. There is a tax for being a lower "option" it seems--especially with fans.

It sounds crazy but it may very well have been better for Pippen to have 10 years as a "#1" and hope he got to the finals once or twice like Ewing, Drexler, Miller, Payton, Kidd did at points. Win or lose? It doesn't matter. Losing as a #1>winning 6 as a #2, evidently.

[Roundball_Rock]

As to the MJ stan pearl clutching, correct me if I'm wrong but my observations are:

1) The people most critical of Pippen are universally highly favorable to MJ
2) Pippen critics defend/praise every 90's superstar (or even stars like Kemp or Miller) except Pippen, Jordan's teammate.
3) The arguments against Pippen aren't even real. They won't apply them to any other player and proudly will tell you it doesn't count for others.

So we have this wellspring of hatred towards Pippen. Who was Pippen? He was a random 90's superstar. I grew up in the Philadelphia area. Pippen, Drexler, Ewing, Robinson, etc. All big names but no one in particular generated a special degree of venom in the 90's.

So there is this Pippen specific hate, Pippen is a random 90's superstar except that he played with Jordan, Pippen detractors never say a negative word and in fact praise every 90's superstar who did not play with Jordan, and these people lionize Jordan. Yet with Pippen it is cherry picking, bad faith, etc. Why do they "randomly" select Jordan's teammate out of all the 90's superstars while loving every other 90's superstar who did *not* play with Jordan?

Call me crazy, but it sure sounds like a Jordan connection to the Pippen hate 25 years later...MJ stans want to conceal it but, barring another explanation for the above, the agenda is obvious.

[Reggie43]

You really think the discussions would go this long if you did not treat Pippen as some sort of irreplaceable legend?

Regardless of resume/rings I place Kemp, Drexler, Mourning, Pippen in terms of impact and ability. All of them led their teams to 60+ wins except Pippen. You proceed to get triggered to the heavens as if these players arent even close.

You proceed to place Miller on the same class as peak Hawkins, Blaylock and Jeff Hornaceck as a shot at me but the difference is I know their true value so why should I be offended when they are close in ability in their respective peaks.

[Rico2016]

You really think the discussions would go this long if you did not treat Pippen as some sort of irreplaceable legend?

Regardless of resume/rings I place Kemp, Drexler, Mourning, Pippen in terms of impact and ability. All of them led their teams to 60+ wins except Pippen. You proceed to get triggered to the heavens as if these players arent even close.

You proceed to place Miller on the same class as peak Hawkins, Blaylock and Jeff Hornaceck as a shot at me but the difference is I know their true value so why should I be offended when they are close in ability in their respective peaks.

How are top 30 all time greats not nearly irreplaceable tho?

[Smoke117]

You really think the discussions would go this long if you did not treat Pippen as some sort of irreplaceable legend?

Regardless of resume/rings I place Kemp, Drexler, Mourning, Pippen in terms of impact and ability. All of them led their teams to 60+ wins except Pippen. You proceed to get triggered to the heavens as if these players arent even close.

You proceed to place Miller on the same class as peak Hawkins, Blaylock and Jeff Hornaceck as a shot at me but the difference is I know their true value so why should I be offended when they are close in ability in their respective peaks.

Lol Kemp never at any point led a team to 60+ wins you dipshit, moron ****ing goof. Your stupidity sucking off Reggie has made you half retarded ****stick.

[Reggie43]

How are top 30 all time greats not nearly irreplaceable tho?

Because some of them get placed there due to team accomplishments and not actual abiility.