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  1. #121
    NBA Superstar 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Hey Micku, what's your opinion on the conversation Kuniva and I are having? Not sure if you read it

  2. #122
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    And with the Shaq and MJ thing?

    My 2cents is that Shaq would respect MJ just because he was older and was the man initially. He would follow his lead.

    The thing with Shaq and Kobe was that Kobe was the golden boy. Young kid who really wanted it and challenged everyone, but the Shaq was the leader. Shaq was always the guy on his team. He was always the best player.

    It wouldn't happen like that if you paired him up with MJ. Especially in 88 when MJ went crazy. MVP, DPOY, scoring title and all that? Plus you had Oakley on the team. They would treat him like they would treat all rookies. But eventually, Shaq ego would get to him I would say.

    And MJ was similar to Kobe. He would the guys to work as hard and be mentally tough. What is different from those two that MJ would go to Shaq's parties or MJ would invite Shaq to parties.

    Phil Jackson even mentioned this:
    "Michael was more charismatic and gregarious than Kobe," Jackson says in the book. "He loved hanging out with his teammates and security guards, playing cards, smoking cigars, and joking around."

    That just wasn't Kobe. According to Jackson, he kept to himself—a self-imposed isolation that he attributed to the absence of the collegiate experience.
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...nt-comparisons

    There were stories when Shaq would invite Kobe to some clubs or parties or whatever, and Kobe would not go. I read somewhere that this rubbed Shaq the wrong way, but he tried to shrug it off. MJ would've gone. This would've helped their relationship. Or since MJ was the leader and Shaq's senior, MJ would've invited Shaq.

    Kobe had to learn to be a better teammate as time went on. But MJ was better than Kobe at the start, so it would've helped with Shaq. And MJ played better with the team concept than Kobe did. He let the offensive game come to him more and he was better at defense. Kobe tended to force things.

    "Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way," he explains. "When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game."
    And even Phil Jackson said that MJ was a better leader.

    The biggest difference between the two, though? Leadership.

    Jordan's congenial persona made for a better leader. Again, he benefited from three years at North Carolina that helped expand his value, both tactically and emotionally. But he had an inherent knack for elevating the play of his teammates, no matter how tough he was on them.

    Kobe, meanwhile, has found himself at the center of many internal controversies. His mindset has never been the same as Jordan's, and he's therefore been unable to have as profound an impact on his teammates.

    "Though at times he could be hard on his teammates, Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence," Jackson confesses. "Kobe had a long way to go before he could make that claim. He talked a good game, but he'd yet to experience the cold truth of leadership in his bones, as Michael had."
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...nt-comparisons

    Kobe got better over time as a leader, but MJ was ahead at that stand point. This would all contribute to a better relationship between MJ and Shaq I would say. MJ wouldn't force the game. He let the game come to him offensively and was more active on defense. MJ was more a ppl person and etc. Plus you had Phil Jackson at the helm.

    What would break them up might not be ego necessary (although it could've been), it would've been money. I don't think Shaq would do the same thing Pippen did. Shaq's ego probably would've gotten to his head, especially when MJ left. More so than Pippen. Shaq would've done the same thing as Pippen and healed on company time obviously. But Shaq definitely would've been after the money. Granted, money back then isn't the same as money now. The team would've been a lot different. They probably would've still won and they probably would've beat Detroit in the 80s if Shaq was there, but I don't know if they would stay together as long as MJ/Pippen. He probably would've went to LA anyway because of business opportunities. He would be after the biggest paycheck.

  3. #123
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    Interesting. But I stated such. I don't see anything wrong with getting mad at your teammates for giving the bare minimum. Especially when you as the teams best player is giving 110%.

    Jordan berated his teammates. Telling the flight attendant to not give Grant food because he had a bad game? Punching Steve Kerr for playing hard defense? Bullying players? I'm just not hearing that from other alltime greats teammates.

    And Jordan wasn't friendly with his teammates. Pippen and Rodman said they never talked outside of the game. The same for the rest of their teammates. They all lived in their own world.
    Kobe was similar. He didn't really talk to his teammates. Especially in the beginning. And for the fights?

    Well, we only know what was said. There is probably a lot stuff lol. As the saying goes, "There are known knowns, and there are knowns unknowns. But there also unknown unknowns." We do know Kobe and Shaq got into it a few times. There are a lot of things we don't know about. Did you know Kobe slapped Samaki Walker across the face cuz he didn't have the $100 to give to Kobe from the bet that they made?

    Walker was telling Phil Jackson to stop the bus so he could fight Kobe. Kobe didn't apologize till later.
    https://www.sportscasting.com/kobe-b...mate-over-100/

    In terms of in game stuff? Kobe was similar to MJ. Saying harsh things and whatever. We don't know everything, but it's there. He was pretty rowdy. Especially in the Shaq/Kobe era when Kobe younger than most of the guys there and wasn't the best player.

    Kobe once made a teammate cry because he told him he needs to rethink his life purpose about playing basketball.

    "I have, I have made somebody cry before. There are certain players I have made cry ... there's one teammate that was just so bad. He was so bad. It wasn't Kwame [Brown]. Kwame actually wasn't that bad. I tease Kwame a lot. It wasn't Smush [Parker]. It was a player you guys won't even remember if I said what his name was. I can't even pronounce his name. It was like some European kid. I don't know. But he was really, really bad. I said, 'You know, dude, you might want to reconsider what your life purpose is. Maybe it's not this.' I was like twenty-something. I don't know. I was really young."
    https://www.businessinsider.com/kobe...ate-cry-2015-7

    He later apologized cuz it didn't come out the way he wanted to. But he did similar stuff as MJ did. But MJ was.....I dunno....more of a people person...which is weird to say. Kobe got better later.
    Last edited by Micku; 11-19-2021 at 12:26 AM.

  4. #124
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    But yeah. I think Pippen was the perfect compliment to MJ.

    Even with Shaq, I don't think it would work out as long. As you said 97 bulls, egos would probably clash, but I'm guessing not as hard as Kobe/Shaq. Like MJ wouldn't say "Shaq gave his women hush money," to the press I think. But I think it would be money that would break them up. Shaq was always after the money.

    I think he would work wonderfully with Hakeem, but post religion when he became Muslim. His faith helped him a lot. Before, he was like MJ I think. Probably worse? I think he was super quick to snap and super competitive. I dunno. I gott'a read up on it again. But then again, him and MJ would respect the hell outta of each other, but it could've been hell for the other teammates and the league. lol! But they were used to it I think. Hakeem learned how to pass better later tho.

    KG would've been a perfect compliment tho. He was pretty loyal. But the dude was crazy, haha. But the defense would've been more intense.

    Tim Duncan would've been cool as well in terms of in game. But their personalities does not mesh well. I don't know how it would go. Similar to Pippen, they would probably not be friends off the court. That's okay tho. But Phil Jackson would love Duncan.

    Wilt and MJ would not work at all I assume...but who knows.

    Bill Russell and MJ would've.

    There are a lot of fun combinations. But MJ/Pippen done wonders. You could probably argue that with another star, they could probably win in the 80s maybe. Get over the hump with the Pistons. They wouldn't triple team MJ anymore. But MJ/Pippen is pretty much the gold standard of the modern nba.
    Last edited by Micku; 11-19-2021 at 12:32 AM.

  5. #125
    NBA Superstar 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku View Post
    Kobe was similar. He didn't really talk to his teammates. Especially in the beginning. And for the fights?

    Well, we only know what was said. There is probably a lot stuff lol. As the saying goes, "There are known knowns, and there are knowns unknowns. But there also unknown unknowns." We do know Kobe and Shaq got into it a few times. There are a lot of things we don't know about. Did you know Kobe slapped Samaki Walker across the face cuz he didn't have the $100 to give to Kobe from the bet that they made?

    Walker was telling Phil Jackson to stop the bus so he could fight Kobe. Kobe didn't apologize till later.
    https://www.sportscasting.com/kobe-b...mate-over-100/

    In terms of in game stuff? Kobe was similar to MJ. Saying harsh things and whatever. We don't know everything, but it's there. He was pretty rowdy. Especially in the Shaq/Kobe era when Kobe younger than most of the guys there and wasn't the best player.

    Kobe once made a teammate cry because he told him he needs to rethink his life purpose about playing basketball.



    https://www.businessinsider.com/kobe...ate-cry-2015-7

    He later apologized cuz it didn't come out the way he wanted to. But he did similar stuff as MJ did. But MJ was.....I dunno....more of a people person...which is weird to say. Kobe got better later.
    Slapping a guy for not giving you the money he owes you is wrong, but not a bad teammate in my opinion. I don't believe Bryant made a teammate cry because he told him that basketball wasn't for him lol. That's one of those silly Paul Bunyan type tales like the one where Jordan supposedly ruined Mugsey Bouges career because he called him a midget. Or the one about how Wilt Chamberlain stopped to take a piss on the side of a road and a mountain lion attacked him and he threw it back into the bushes. Or that he dunked a ball so hard that the ball broke Red Kerrs foot.

  6. #126
    NBA Superstar 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku View Post
    And with the Shaq and MJ thing?

    My 2cents is that Shaq would respect MJ just because he was older and was the man initially. He would follow his lead.

    The thing with Shaq and Kobe was that Kobe was the golden boy. Young kid who really wanted it and challenged everyone, but the Shaq was the leader. Shaq was always the guy on his team. He was always the best player.

    It wouldn't happen like that if you paired him up with MJ. Especially in 88 when MJ went crazy. MVP, DPOY, scoring title and all that? Plus you had Oakley on the team. They would treat him like they would treat all rookies. But eventually, Shaq ego would get to him I would say.

    And MJ was similar to Kobe. He would the guys to work as hard and be mentally tough. What is different from those two that MJ would go to Shaq's parties or MJ would invite Shaq to parties.

    Phil Jackson even mentioned this:

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...nt-comparisons

    There were stories when Shaq would invite Kobe to some clubs or parties or whatever, and Kobe would not go. I read somewhere that this rubbed Shaq the wrong way, but he tried to shrug it off. MJ would've gone. This would've helped their relationship. Or since MJ was the leader and Shaq's senior, MJ would've invited Shaq.

    Kobe had to learn to be a better teammate as time went on. But MJ was better than Kobe at the start, so it would've helped with Shaq. And MJ played better with the team concept than Kobe did. He let the offensive game come to him more and he was better at defense. Kobe tended to force things.



    And even Phil Jackson said that MJ was a better leader.


    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...nt-comparisons

    Kobe got better over time as a leader, but MJ was ahead at that stand point. This would all contribute to a better relationship between MJ and Shaq I would say. MJ wouldn't force the game. He let the game come to him offensively and was more active on defense. MJ was more a ppl person and etc. Plus you had Phil Jackson at the helm.

    What would break them up might not be ego necessary (although it could've been), it would've been money. I don't think Shaq would do the same thing Pippen did. Shaq's ego probably would've gotten to his head, especially when MJ left. More so than Pippen. Shaq would've done the same thing as Pippen and healed on company time obviously. But Shaq definitely would've been after the money. Granted, money back then isn't the same as money now. The team would've been a lot different. They probably would've still won and they probably would've beat Detroit in the 80s if Shaq was there, but I don't know if they would stay together as long as MJ/Pippen. He probably would've went to LA anyway because of business opportunities. He would be after the biggest paycheck.
    Again, I don't know much of that is true. I remember Kobe saying he didn't fo to clubs with teammates because he was too young to get in the club.

    Steve Kerr, Jud Buechler, and Bills Wennington said they didn't have a relationship with Jordan and Pippen outside of the court. Pippen, Grant, and Rodman stated the same thing. So somebody's lying lol

  7. #127
    NBA Superstar 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku View Post
    But yeah. I think Pippen was the perfect compliment to MJ.

    Even with Shaq, I don't think it would work out as long. As you said 97 bulls, egos would probably clash, but I'm guessing not as hard as Kobe/Shaq. Like MJ wouldn't say "Shaq gave his women hush money," to the press I think. But I think it would be money that would break them up. Shaq was always after the money.

    I think he would work wonderfully with Hakeem, but post religion when he became Muslim. His faith helped him a lot. Before, he was like MJ I think. Probably worse? I think he was super quick to snap and super competitive. I dunno. I gott'a read up on it again. But then again, him and MJ would respect the hell outta of each other, but it could've been hell for the other teammates and the league. lol! But they were used to it I think. Hakeem learned how to pass better later tho.

    KG would've been a perfect compliment tho. He was pretty loyal. But the dude was crazy, haha. But the defense would've been more intense.

    Tim Duncan would've been cool as well in terms of in game. But their personalities does not mesh well. I don't know how it would go. Similar to Pippen, they would probably not be friends off the court. That's okay tho. But Phil Jackson would love Duncan.

    Wilt and MJ would not work at all I assume...but who knows.

    Bill Russell and MJ would've.

    There are a lot of fun combinations. But MJ/Pippen done wonders. You could probably argue that with another star, they could probably win in the 80s maybe. Get over the hump with the Pistons. They wouldn't triple team MJ anymore. But MJ/Pippen is pretty much the gold standard of the modern nba.
    There's a lot of guys that I believe could've won with MJ. But how long? And at what cost? Kobe would've never been looked at as the same player he is today if he didn't play outside of Shaqs shadow. Hell, I'd feel similar to many about Pippen if he didn't do what he did in 94 and 95. Most felt that if Jordan left the Bulls, they stink to the highest of the heavens. Like Draymond Green when he was asked to keep the Warriors afloat.

    If anything, I think Pippen actually regrets staying and playing alongside MJ for so long. It seems to me he'd get more respect had he left the Bulls and maybe won an MVP and DPOY, but only won 2 Championships. Which is crazy to me.

    Reading Pippen's book, confirms that he was a team player. He was about winning. He wasn't in to stats.

  8. #128
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    There's a lot of guys that I believe could've won with MJ. But how long? And at what cost? Kobe would've never been looked at as the same player he is today if he didn't play outside of Shaqs shadow. Hell, I'd feel similar to many about Pippen if he didn't do what he did in 94 and 95. Most felt that if Jordan left the Bulls, they stink to the highest of the heavens. Like Draymond Green when he was asked to keep the Warriors afloat.

    If anything, I think Pippen actually regrets staying and playing alongside MJ for so long. It seems to me he'd get more respect had he left the Bulls and maybe won an MVP and DPOY, but only won 2 Championships. Which is crazy to me.

    Reading Pippen's book, confirms that he was a team player. He was about winning. He wasn't in to stats.
    Dude literally checks himself out of a crucial game because his coach chose a fair decision

    And 20 years later he said he would do it again if given a chance to relive it while calling Phil Jackson a racist for doing so

    What a team player he was

  9. #129
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    Again, I don't know much of that is true. I remember Kobe saying he didn't fo to clubs with teammates because he was too young to get in the club.

    Steve Kerr, Jud Buechler, and Bills Wennington said they didn't have a relationship with Jordan and Pippen outside of the court. Pippen, Grant, and Rodman stated the same thing. So somebody's lying lol
    Yeah, that's true. Kobe said he didn't go to clubs cuz he was too young. But as a nba player, you could get around that. lol! Not to say he should. But he was loner pretty much he was younger.

    And with MJ, it was probably more of a prospective thing with Phil Jackson part rather than lying. MJ would invite guys to dinner, play cards and such. There were some articles that mentioned that and you could see it on The Last Dance documentary and other documentaries about MJ. They would do it on the bus or plane or whatever. But they don't go on the banana boat like LeBron and D-Wade. It seems like Kobe didn't do any of these things. It was more like go to practice and get out. And talk trash while you were if things get heated. But you don't always have to a better relationship with yo teammates to succeed. Magic and Kareem didn't really talk for years when they played together.

    Kerr also mentioned that it was easier to play with Tim Duncan than it was with MJ. MJ it felt like you played for him rather than with him. But he also mentioned that he had such a intense competitive fire or whatever that it affected his opponents too.

    Regardless, I just mention the whole MJ leadership thing because it seemed like Shaq and MJ would possibly get along a little better than Kobe and Shaq. MJ was older, a bit more mature, and had more experience in the leadership category. And him and Shaq would be more interactive than Kobe and Shaq were. Both were hard on their teammates tho.

  10. #130
    NBA sixth man of the year Micku's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    There's a lot of guys that I believe could've won with MJ. But how long? And at what cost? Kobe would've never been looked at as the same player he is today if he didn't play outside of Shaqs shadow. Hell, I'd feel similar to many about Pippen if he didn't do what he did in 94 and 95. Most felt that if Jordan left the Bulls, they stink to the highest of the heavens. Like Draymond Green when he was asked to keep the Warriors afloat.

    If anything, I think Pippen actually regrets staying and playing alongside MJ for so long. It seems to me he'd get more respect had he left the Bulls and maybe won an MVP and DPOY, but only won 2 Championships. Which is crazy to me.

    Reading Pippen's book, confirms that he was a team player. He was about winning. He wasn't in to stats.
    I don't know if it confirms that to the masses.

    I'm sure some ppl do agree with that. I also think he is a team player to an certain extent. He might be like Tim Duncan where the stats don't really show the significance of his play on the floor.

    But from the lines that I saw, from the ppl that review the book, it seems he was a bit whiny. I don't think the media or the fans of the masses would change their mind about Pippen. Ppl who think he was underrated would still say he is, ppl who think he is overrated would say he still is. And the fans in the middle, that may change and his peers, and the generation of nba players who care about the past. He said he thought MJ ruined the game of basketball too. Talking about the iso game. When MJ's game was 3 dribbles or less when it comes to attack and the defense was amazing. Players were in awe of the next generation and even the generation after that. Players idolize MJ, even now. But they are more with Kobe. Nowadays, ppl are going to idolize Curry, LeBron, KD.

    But I think Pippen made a bunch of mistakes if he was trying to get ppl on his side about it.

    I still got to read the whole book myself when I get the time. lol! But honestly, it seems to give out a negative impression. It doesn't really seem like he is a team player, but more jealous of the attention MJ got. Although he definitely was a team player in those championship runs. But all of them were. Including MJ, but MJ was MJ.

  11. #131
    NBA Superstar 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku View Post
    I don't know if it confirms that to the masses.

    I'm sure some ppl do agree with that. I also think he is a team player to an certain extent. He might be like Tim Duncan where the stats don't really show the significance of his play on the floor.

    But from the lines that I saw, from the ppl that review the book, it seems he was a bit whiny. I don't think the media or the fans of the masses would change their mind about Pippen. Ppl who think he was underrated would still say he is, ppl who think he is overrated would say he still is. And the fans in the middle, that may change and his peers, and the generation of nba players who care about the past. He said he thought MJ ruined the game of basketball too. Talking about the iso game. When MJ's game was 3 dribbles or less when it comes to attack and the defense was amazing. Players were in awe of the next generation and even the generation after that. Players idolize MJ, even now. But they are more with Kobe. Nowadays, ppl are going to idolize Curry, LeBron, KD.

    But I think Pippen made a bunch of mistakes if he was trying to get ppl on his side about it.

    I still got to read the whole book myself when I get the time. lol! But honestly, it seems to give out a negative impression. It doesn't really seem like he is a team player, but more jealous of the attention MJ got. Although he definitely was a team player in those championship runs. But all of them were. Including MJ, but MJ was MJ.
    There's nothing interesting there that would make him whiney. He actually gives MJ a lot of credit. The problem is that Jordan fans have gone out of their way the demean the teammates of Mixhael Jordan. I've never seen a player be excused for so much lol. But what is Pippen saying that makes him whiney? His problem with the Last Dance was that it didn't catch the participation of Jordan's teammates. And I agree. So did Grant, Cartwright, Hodges, Harper, even Longley. I mean, why did Jordan leave out all the great moments of his teammates? Even if he felt compelled to offer his perfect of 94,m and Pippen sitting out, why not acknowledge the bad call Hue Hollins made?

    What makes Pippen whiney?
    Last edited by 97 bulls; 11-19-2021 at 03:49 AM.

  12. #132
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    There's nothing interesting there that would make him whiney. He actually gives MJ a lot of credit. The problem is that Jordan fans have gone out of their way the demean the teammates of Mixhael Jordan. I've never seen a player be excused for so much lol. But what is Pippen saying that makes him whiney? His problem with the Last Dance was that it didn't catch the participation of Jordan's teammates. And I agree. So did Grant, Cartwright, Hodges, Harper, even Longley. I mean, why did Jordan leave out all the great moments of his teammates? Even if he felt compelled to offer his perfect of 94,m and Pippen sitting out, why not acknowledge the bad call Hue Hollins made?

    What makes Pippen whiney?
    Because as much as he mentions how much of a team player he is, which I think he was with his play style, he also mentions a lot of "Is". Like I was as valuable. How come they didn't show the steal that "I" did in game 6 of the Jazz. He did say, what MJ did was nothing special but to pass it to the open man. We were always taught to do that. How come they didn't show our comeback in game 6 in 1992 without MJ? How come they didn't show the trash talk I gave to Karl Malone when I said, "The Mailman don't deliver on Sundays?"

    I heard he talks about how he wasn't a starter in all-star 1990 but he was behind Bird and Barkley that year.

    There are some things rather interesting. Like how he grew up and he develop the person that he was/is today. And how he treated the team like family in his own right and that everyone has a specific role and such. But there are some things that I think might not fly.

    Like the Bulls in game 6 against Portland, the Bulls came back with MJ. But then MJ scored like 12 pts in those 8 and half mins. And MJ hit some clutch shots. So, it would've been back to MJ in the first place. And the whole Doug Collins thing and how they didn't play team ball. But when they did pass it to the role players, especially during the Pistons game, when they were open, it was bunch of bricks. Like they literally left them open. They didn't care as long as it wasn't MJ. MJ was getting like double to triple to four guys on him. I haven't gotten to that part yet when he talks about it, so I might eventually when I get time, so he could mention that as well.

    He talked about Sam Vincent and his role was to get the ball to MJ and that's how they went on their run in 88 in their last 13 games. But I don't know if he mentioned that MJ averaged like 38.8 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, 3.4 stls, 1.1 blks, on 56% shooting. Although he did mention his scoring seasons in the 80s and just being in awe of how he scored with the fastbreak and iso plays. He talked about him calling Phil was a racist was a coping mechanism.

    But with his interviews, it just handled the wrong way. Like everything about this seems to be handling the wrong way judging from the reactions from everyone.

    I do think he has some points, but it's not executed the best. Plus MJ is MJ. I mean....it is hard to compete with that. I do doubt Pippen will ever gets the respect he wants from the masses, media, peers, or even current generation of stars. However, he make some solid points and ppl should study his game too as well as MJ. The book seems entertaining from another prospective for sure. But to convince ppl he is just as valuable as MJ, that's not going to happen. And judging the reactions from ppl, they not going to share that view anytime soon. From what I seen, ppl think it's embarrassing.

    I think what he should emphasis, more so than his own self worth to the team, is that the team was better without MJ than ppl actually think. Obviously not in the beginning cuz that team was trash, but they later they were underrated. That they were a great team than a one man show. Although MJ carried them offensively and made them one of the GOAT teams, but they were real solid without him too. But I don't know anything. This is what Pippen choice to put out there in the public. I just think it'll backfire on how ppl view him.
    Last edited by Micku; 11-19-2021 at 05:08 AM.

  13. #133
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by 97 bulls View Post
    Slapping a guy for not giving you the money he owes you is wrong, but not a bad teammate in my opinion. I don't believe Bryant made a teammate cry because he told him that basketball wasn't for him lol. That's one of those silly Paul Bunyan type tales like the one where Jordan supposedly ruined Mugsey Bouges career because he called him a midget. Or the one about how Wilt Chamberlain stopped to take a piss on the side of a road and a mountain lion attacked him and he threw it back into the bushes. Or that he dunked a ball so hard that the ball broke Red Kerrs foot.
    Hahah! Well, Kobe actually said it. He said he made a few players cry.

    And we don't know what he said to the other players. What don't know to what extent or how hard he pushed his teammates either other than he was pretty hard. I know there are some books out there that might give you a glimpse of what happened, but I haven't read it. But what is more popular and out there are the Bulls with MJ. So we know more about them than we do about any other locker room. It happens.

    But we do know that with the Spurs with Tim Duncan had no drama other than that Tony Parker thing. And we know James Harden go crazy at the strip clubs and the rockets let him do whatever he wants while he was with him.

  14. #134
    NBA Superstar 97 bulls's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    Quote Originally Posted by Micku View Post
    Because as much as he mentions how much of a team player he is, which I think he was with his play style, he also mentions a lot of "Is". Like I was as valuable. How come they didn't show the steal that "I" did in game 6 of the Jazz. He did say, what MJ did was nothing special but to pass it to the open man. We were always taught to do that. How come they didn't show our comeback in game 6 in 1992 without MJ? How come they didn't show the trash talk I gave to Karl Malone when I said, "The Mailman don't deliver on Sundays?"
    Lol. Bro. He said our as in team. He mentions Bobby Hanson by name and said he starts off hitting a big three. He also brings up the other players that were on the court with him He never mentioned that he also scored 12pts in the 4th and hit the go ahead basket in the clutch. And I believe he even mentioned that Jordan came back in and finished the job. But how is that whiney? And how can that possibly be selfish? Even more, why did MJ leave that out?

    I heard he talks about how he wasn't a starter in all-star 1990 but he was behind Bird and Barkley that year.
    Yeah I thought that was crazy. Or was it that he didn't make the Allstar team in 91? I'd have to go back and read it again.

    There are some things rather interesting. Like how he grew up and he develop the person that he was/is today. And how he treated the team like family in his own right and that everyone has a specific role and such. But there are some things that I think might not fly.

    Like the Bulls in game 6 against Portland, the Bulls came back with MJ. But then MJ scored like 12 pts in those 8 and half mins. And MJ hit some clutch shots. So, it would've been back to MJ in the first place. And the whole Doug Collins thing and how they didn't play team ball. But when they did pass it to the role players, especially during the Pistons game, when they were open, it was bunch of bricks. Like they literally left them open. They didn't care as long as it wasn't MJ. MJ was getting like double to triple to four guys on him. I haven't gotten to that part yet when he talks about it, so I might eventually when I get time, so he could mention that as well.
    Lol. Bro. That's not how basketball as a team game works. The Bulls didn't really run an offense. It was Jordan trying to get his shot off and guys watching. No spacing, no movement, no direction, guys trying to get out of Jordan's way, and while they may be "open", they're not in their comfort zone. That's pickup ball.

    He talked about Sam Vincent and his role was to get the ball to MJ and that's how they went on their run in 88 in their last 13 games. But I don't know if he mentioned that MJ averaged like 38.8 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, 3.4 stls, 1.1 blks, on 56% shooting.

    Although he did mention his scoring seasons in the 80s and just being in awe of how he scored with the fastbreak and iso plays. He talked about him calling Phil was a racist was a coping mechanism.
    This is Pippen's story. Not Jordan's. That's how it was framed in rebuttal to Jordan's teammates voicing their displeasure. See the double standard?

    I do think he has some points, but it's not executed the best. Plus MJ is MJ. I mean....it is hard to compete with that. I do doubt Pippen will ever gets the respect he wants from the masses, media, peers, or even current generation of stars. However, he make some solid points and ppl should study his game too as well as MJ. The book seems entertaining from another prospective for sure. But to convince ppl he is just as valuable as MJ, that's not going to happen. And judging the reactions from ppl, they not going to share that view anytime soon. From what I seen, ppl think it's embarrassing.

    I think what he should emphasis, more so than his own self worth to the team, is that the team was better without MJ than ppl actually think. Obviously not in the beginning cuz that team was trash, but they later they were underrated. That they were a great team than a one man show. Although MJ carried them offensively and made them one of the GOAT teams, but they were real solid without him too. But I don't know anything. This is what Pippen choice to put out there in the public. I just think it'll backfire on how ppl view him.
    It didn't backfire, I'm starting to see people see his pov. What did he lie about? He was as important to Jordan with regards to the Bulls winning those 6 titles. Jordan was the best, but he was equally as important. The problem is these media guys that are voicing their displeasure with Pippen aren't willing to debate the subject.

  15. #135
    NBA lottery pick dankok8's Avatar
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    Default Re: We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

    I agree with Micku that Pippen's way of doing things is going to backfire with people. The public is more likely to come away from this thinking "Geez Jordan led that headcase to so many rings..." rather than "Pippen was as important as Jordan." Neither of course is a true statement but people are more likely to come away thinking the first. This book sours people's views on Pippen IMO.

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