Did the Jokic fans get ahead of themselves?

[90sgoat]

I don't want to derail the thread, but since you mentioned him, Larry Bird gets as big of a pass for underperforming in the playoffs as any top 10 player. I know he's someone who's impact goes beyond the boxscore, but for the clutch rep that he has, some of his playoff performances are shockingly mediocre.

Different era back them, 20 ppg was a lot more difficult to score.

[Overdrive]

Different era back them, 20 ppg was a lot more difficult to score.

In the 80s?

[ArbitraryWater]

Different era back them, 20 ppg was a lot more difficult to score.

It was not.

[TheMan]

People think it's a joke or a meme but if you watch the tape the 80s and 90s were a joke. Guys couldn't dribble more than twice going left and everybody's long range shooting was trash. Larry Bird was one of the only ambidextrous players but he was so unathletic it wasn't even funny.

You're too old to have a take this trash

[Overdrive]

You're too old to have a take this trash

Trash takes are his speciality.

[90sgoat]

In the 80s?

Go check the early 80s playoffs, I just did, Bird ws 5th with a 20 point average in 1982 playoffs.

[90sgoat]

It was not.

Playoff ppg avg:

1981: 7 players above 20 ppg
1982: 10 players above 20 ppg
1983: 12 players above 20 ppg
1984: 18 players above 20 ppg
(1985: 20 players above 20 ppg)

2021: 21 players above 20 ppg
2022: 21 players above 20 ppg
2023: 25 players above 20 ppg
2022: 22 players above 20 ppg

So yeah, the early 80s were low scoring and only mid- to late 80s changed that.

[SouBeachTalents]

Playoff ppg avg:

1981: 7 players above 20 ppg
1982: 10 players above 20 ppg
1983: 12 players above 20 ppg
1984: 18 players above 20 ppg
(1985: 20 players above 20 ppg)

2021: 21 players above 20 ppg
2022: 21 players above 20 ppg
2023: 25 players above 20 ppg
2022: 22 players above 20 ppg

So yeah, the early 80s were low scoring and only mid- to late 80s changed that.

First of all, Bird should be held to a higher standard than everyone in the 80's with the exception of Magic & Kareem, he's a 3x MVP and a consensus top 10 player. The real issue is, his production would frequently drop off from the regular season to the playoffs.

1981 RS: 21 ppg on 53%TS
1981 Finals: 15 ppg on 46%TS

1982 RS: 23 ppg on 56%TS
1982 PS: 18 ppg on 47%TS

1983 RS: 24 ppg on 56%TS
1983 PS: 21 ppg on 48%TS

1985 RS: 29 ppg 59%TS
1985 Finals: 24 ppg on 53%TS

1987 RS: 28 ppg 61%TS
1987 Finals: 24 ppg on 53%TS

1988 RS: 30 ppg on 61%TS
1988 ECF: 20 ppg on 45%TS

That is a clear trend of a steep drop off in ppg & efficiency on a nearly annual basis.

[Carbine]

First of all, Bird should be held to a higher standard than everyone in the 80's with the exception of Magic & Kareem, he's a 3x MVP and a consensus top 10 player. The real issue is, his production would frequently drop off from the regular season to the playoffs.

1981 RS: 21 ppg on 53%TS
1981 Finals: 15 ppg on 46%TS

1982 RS: 23 ppg on 56%TS
1982 PS: 18 ppg on 47%TS

1983 RS: 24 ppg on 56%TS
1983 PS: 21 ppg on 48%TS

1985 RS: 29 ppg 59%TS
1985 Finals: 24 ppg on 53%TS

1987 RS: 28 ppg 61%TS
1987 Finals: 24 ppg on 53%TS

1988 RS: 30 ppg on 61%TS
1988 ECF: 20 ppg on 45%TS

That is a clear trend of a steep drop off in ppg & efficiency on a nearly annual basis.

I think what balances it out is the fact he also had some series that were excellent. He was also a true leader, one of the best passers ever, maybe the best rebounding SF ever and the offense didn't revolve around him (he played off the ball a lot) so his inefficient scoring games could be made up for by being a big factor in other parts of the game.

[Carbine]

That doesn't mean Bird wasn't ALWAYS great. Or always good even. He had bad series (for him) just like everyone, Jordan had some off series too (for him)

[SouBeachTalents]

I think what balances it out is the fact he also had some series that were excellent. He was also a true leader, one of the best passers ever, maybe the best rebounding SF ever and the offense didn't revolve around him (he played off the ball a lot) so his inefficient scoring games could be made up for by being a big factor in other parts of the game.

I'm not even going out of my way to disparage Bird specifically, I was just responding to a post saying everyone criticizing Jokic for this series would have had a field day clowning past ATG's for some of their playoff performances, which were FAR worse than what Jokic just did. Jokic's been a remarkably consistent playoff performer thus far without even a truly bad series to his name.

[John8204]

That doesn't mean Bird wasn't ALWAYS great. Or always good even. He had bad series (for him) just like everyone, Jordan had some off series too (for him)

Bird also made the NBA or conference finals eight times in his career over Jokic two.

[j3lademaster]

Bird also made the NBA or conference finals eight times in his career over Jokic two.

Well, yeah, his team’s stacked. Not everyone has the luxury of winning in the finals averaging 15 on 46 ts. Yes, those were his finals stats in 81.

[SouBeachTalents]

Well, yeah, his team’s stacked. Not everyone has the luxury of winning in the finals averaging 15 on 46 ts. Yes, those were his finals stats in 81.

It’s amazing how having 3 HOF’ers on the team can help you make deep playoff runs consistently.

[John8204]

Well, yeah, his team’s stacked. Not everyone has the luxury of winning in the finals averaging 15 on 46 ts. Yes, those were his finals stats in 81.

With guys that didn't win elsewhere and were able to make the jump when playing with Bird.