Peak Jokic vs Peak Curry

[warriorfan]

Converting offense without needing necessary spacing >>>>>

you are f ucking retarded

[PeroAntic]

Its Curry. He revolutionized the game ffs. As hard as peak Jokic is to defend, peak Curry had the entire opposition gameplan about stopping him.

[RRR3]

Besides GOAT season (and he may just mean most wins in a regular season) he's right and I rarely agree with him.

[Stephonit]

Your comparison is based on 1 game. Joker's 3pt shot is respected by defenses around the league. With Denver having better options to take the 3, of course defenses would rather let him take the 3.

Steph being the much bigger threat from 3 is exactly more Joker is a threat inside the line and on the offensive glass. This while not even bringing up his passing advantage.

When Steph's 3 isn't falling, it's hard for him to impact the offense. The same can't be said about Jokic.

One game? Denver was held to less than 100 in the 4 games they lost in this series.

Even when Curry's three isn't falling he remains too much of a threat and still creates holes for his teammates to exploit. When did the Warriors only score 70 in the playoffs with Curry on the floor?

[hold this L]

Your comparison is based on 1 game. Joker's 3pt shot is respected by defenses around the league. With Denver having better options to take the 3, of course defenses would rather let him take the 3.

Steph being the much bigger threat from 3 is exactly more Joker is a threat inside the line and on the offensive glass. This while not even bringing up his passing advantage.

When Steph's 3 isn't falling, it's hard for him to impact the offense. The same can't be said about Jokic.

ESPN-level take that's objectively wrong. He's had plenty of games when his 3 hasn't fallen and made massive impact. His off ball movement, setting screens and threat from far opens the court like nobody else in NBA history. And no, Jokic inside is not the same as Steph from the outside. Jokic inside pulling players is something many elite players have been able to do. Doing is from Steph's gravity means your entire team is pushed much further towards the middle of the court, giving significantly more space to everybody. The pace & space era itself in general with guys being better shooters than before shows this on a smaller scale, where the court warps in terms of giving space to all 5 guys compared to before. Steph is just the extreme variant of that.

His shot is respected yet he was treated like Draymond Green at the 3P line.. in a game 7.. at home. I don't ever want that respect.

[hold this L]

You probably want to stay away from big game performance talk if you're trying to debate pro Curry or pro Kobe. Curry in particular is incredibly unclutch. Like, historically bad in the clutch.



And this is coming from someone who has Curry as my favorite current player. I've argued time and time again Draymond would be akin to what you said- a 15 min energy guy off the bench- without him. He doesn't rebound well enough to be your center(KD era is a bad example because that's not a typical team). I've even argued I would consider taking Curry first if we're discussing all time teams because he's that rare all time superstar who doesn't need plays ran for him and has zero ego as far as letting his teammates cook, evident in how he took a backseat to KD and willingly came off the bench for meme player Jordan Poole because Poole was on a hot streak and Steph unselfishly wanted to help foster the kid's confidence. Trust me, I understand Curry's intangibles even BEYOND his offball play, which is second to none. But if we're building a team with salary caps and all, Jokic is easier to build around because he's almost impossible to force a bad game out of. Historically impossible, almost on Lebron's levels. Curry, KD, Kobe, all those guys are all time greats but all of them have let great defenses force them into uncomfortable shots and had poor series' off of them. Shaq, Jokic and Lebron- while they have had stinkers and have been bothered by defenses, is MUCH less susceptible to having a bad series than virtually any other peak in history. Look at the great Bird's playoff failures, and he's seen as some consistent clutch god. Everyone has playoff failures, Jokic's 'Tragic Johnson' moment is when he 'failed' with 29/11/8 on 61% ts for the series while averaging UNDER 3 SECONDS PER TOUCH(did his damage within optimal ball movement and flow of the game) when he 'only' did 34/19/7 on 46%(ok, that's terrible for a center) facing elimination. Against a team that's built to stop him by the previous Denver gm. If this is his floor, he's undoubtedly all time great.

And no, they didn't leave him like Draymond. Jokic is so good at creating you live with giving him space for the 3, Draymond's spacing is completely created for him by Steph- not respect for any other aspect of Green's game.

Couple of things here. Last shot of the game =/= how clutch everything is. If it's regarding that, then we can put Dame as the most clutch player in the league, the same guy that had nearly 3 20point leads in a series he got swept by Steph in a few years back. Clutch is give them the ball in the last 5 minutes of the game and let them do their thing.

Jokic didn't have a bad series or tragic Johnson moment vs Minny, he just lost and it happens. It's embarrassing to be treated like a bum from the 3P line especially when you're historically solid there, but noone is going to care a week from now. Jokic's book right now is still open, he's in his prime and we all imagine he'll be there for a few more years. It's up to him to see what he fills in there.

His worst series isn't this one, it's the Suns 2021 where he was getting humiliated defensively on a regular basis. That's his achilles heel, he's poor defensively unless you put the right level of talent around him to make up for it (AG and KCP for POA defense). I agree that Jokic is far less likely to have a bad offensive game, that much is clear. But defensively, some of the worst defending I've seen from a big was in that 2021 series. The difference is (because I've made the same argument for Steph before), he's so good offensively that it doesn't even matter what happens defensively. But Malone and the previous GM put a quality team that mashes well beforehand.

The issue is the new arrogant retard in charge. You can't lose two elite role players and replace them with potential for a guy in his prime. I've always gotten annoyed by LeGM who always is a diva and puts pressure on the board and the CEO to be proactive every single summer, but I've started to sway that opinion over time after watching the morons at GS just hoping Steph magically does their job for them.. as well as the new GM whose doing the same for Joker with the Nuggets.

[NBAGOAT]

Couple of things here. Last shot of the game =/= how clutch everything is. If it's regarding that, then we can put Dame as the most clutch player in the league, the same guy that had nearly 3 20point leads in a series he got swept by Steph in a few years back. Clutch is give them the ball in the last 5 minutes of the game and let them do their thing.

Jokic didn't have a bad series or tragic Johnson moment vs Minny, he just lost and it happens. It's embarrassing to be treated like a bum from the 3P line especially when you're historically solid there, but noone is going to care a week from now. Jokic's book right now is still open, he's in his prime and we all imagine he'll be there for a few more years. It's up to him to see what he fills in there.

His worst series isn't this one, it's the Suns 2021 where he was getting humiliated defensively on a regular basis. That's his achilles heel, he's poor defensively unless you put the right level of talent around him to make up for it (AG and KCP for POA defense). I agree that Jokic is far less likely to have a bad offensive game, that much is clear. But defensively, some of the worst defending I've seen from a big was in that 2021 series. The difference is (because I've made the same argument for Steph before), he's so good offensively that it doesn't even matter what happens defensively. But Malone and the previous GM put a quality team that mashes well beforehand.

The issue is the new arrogant retard in charge. You can't lose two elite role players and replace them with potential for a guy in his prime. I've always gotten annoyed by LeGM who always is a diva and puts pressure on the board and the CEO to be proactive every single summer, but I've started to sway that opinion over time after watching the morons at GS just hoping Steph magically does their job for them.. as well as the new GM whose doing the same for Joker with the Nuggets.

You’re right about LeGm though he’s been part of mistakes too. Obviously wanted a co ball handler and westbrook was a disaster. On other hand wanted hield/Turner or Kyrie and pelinka going for dlo was obviously a mistake. Kind of a problem for a lot of gms in general they put too much stock into young guys developing and the future. I get it they’re way cheaper and the future matters and your star could leave but late round draft picks are such a crapshoot. They’re sacrificing their title opportunity for the future you can’t do that when you have a superstar in his prime.

Look at stevens no one on his teams is safe if an upgrade is available. Ok once in awhile you’ll lose a prospect like nesmith but nesmith became jrue holiday that was worth. He keeps picks but only to trade them later

Edit: also though KD was going be better than legm at being a gm when bkn had their big 3 but we saw what happened there lol