Draymond kind of won that argument at the end

[StrongLurk]

My bad. Misread. The idea remains the same though. The Rockets shot poorly and still took the series to 7 games. And I don't think the 2018 Rockets, despite winning 65 games, were as good as those 2000s Lakers teams.

Modern teams like the 2018 Rockets can compete, because the philosophies and schemes are generally optimized, which is NOT the case for teams in the 90s/2000s.

[StrongLurk]

Cavs had a non-shooter in TT playing 26 mpg with mediocre shooters in RJ and Shumpert being apart of the rotation as well and they had no trouble scoring the ball.

None of those guys are stopping athletic prime KB lol. They couldn't stop either of Lebron or Kyrie but you think Kobe would have trouble scoring on them? Please. Even a past-prime Kobe consistently gave it to Klay, apart from his last season in the league. If year 19 Kobe could drop 44 and 28 on Dray & Klay I think '01 KB would do just fine.

If we play by today's rules as well there's nothing they can do to stop Shaq or KB, sorry.

You are literally just wrong. It's hilarious you brought up Lebron/Kyrie in 2017 because what happened? They lost in FIVE games.

The Warriors would just let Shaq get "his" and then double team the shit out of Kobe. Kobe has plenty of series 2000-2002 where he played poorly against worse defenses than the 17-19 Warriors.

Your claims are so bad that there is no need to try to debunk them. They are just wrong. You are doing exactly what I said in the OP, which is turning these matchups into 2 on 2 (KD/Curry vs Shaq/KB) You are thinking to SMALL on this topic and not realizing how much more talent the whole Warriors teams have on top of having better philosophies/schemes on BOTH sides of the ball. Shaq could easily get in foul trouble and have no chance at guarding the pick/rolls and ball movement of the Warriors.

[HoopsNY]

Modern teams like the 2018 Rockets can compete, because the philosophies and schemes are generally optimized, which is NOT the case for teams in the 90s/2000s.

Why not? The entire league has shifted in philosophy. This is a top down effort. The league front office, the team front offices, and the teams themselves have shifted.

Carmelo in a recent podcast mentioned he was literally not allowed to play bully ball by the league refs and his own front office when he joined Portland. He was also instructed by the team that he could only take a certain percentage of mid-range jumpers.

If rule changes facilitated this process, and the team front offices as well, why wouldn't teams who have numerous shooters do the same?

The Lakers had Fox, Shaw, Rice, Fisher, Horry, Kobe, etc. There's no reason to think that they couldn't jack up 30-40 threes in a game and shoot 31%, especially when you basically became required to do so.

[StrongLurk]

Why not? The entire league has shifted in philosophy. This is a top down effort. The league front office, the team front offices, and the teams themselves have shifted.

Carmelo in a recent podcast mentioned he was literally not allowed to play bully ball by the league refs and his own front office when he joined Portland. He was also instructed by the team that he could only take a certain percentage of mid-range jumpers.

If rule changes facilitated this process, and the team front offices as well, why wouldn't teams who have numerous shooters do the same?

The Lakers had Fox, Shaw, Rice, Fisher, Horry, Kobe, etc. There's no reason to think that they couldn't jack up 30-40 threes in a game and shoot 31%, especially when you basically became required to do so.

You can't just jack up a million threes suddenly lol. You think the Lakers system back then would just allow that easily?

[tpols]

Dray won “by decision”, after getting clever, and not focusing on “who would win the fight”, but viewing the fight as a dual ejection tool

Shaq had his entire energy shifted by Dray cleverness.

I absolutely despise/hate Dray as a player.

But I gotta say, maybe it’s just by comparison since Shaq and Kenny are so MF terrible, in their own ways ….

…. But I really do enjoy Draymond as a commentator.
I thought he was just attention-starved, but he adds far far far more solid insight that Shaq or Kenny ever do.
All Kenny’s supposed “insight” is just barely-applicable and even completely non-applicable bluster/bullsh!t, that often barely even supports his own basic biased narrative of “why”. Kenny bullsh!t only fools people who never played the game at a decent level.

Chuck ain’t all that insightful either , but he’s genuinely charming and funny and likable.

Oddly enough, the way I hate dray as a player but love him as a commentator, is the exact opposite I feel about Shaq. As a little boy, I LOVED SHAQ AND PENNY, so much, but shaq as a commentator, offers Jack sh!t. Dude just phones it in with lame cliches. It’s obvious he doesn’t even watch games much at all. Zero value, other than him and chuck threatening each other

He appealed to Shaqs ego. Basically saying Shaq is way better than him. Once the big man caught that vibe he settled down.

[ImKobe]

You are literally just wrong. It's hilarious you brought up Lebron/Kyrie in 2017 because what happened? They lost in FIVE games.

The Warriors would just let Shaq get "his" and then double team the shit out of Kobe. Kobe has plenty of series 2000-2002 where he played poorly against worse defenses than the 17-19 Warriors.

Your claims are so bad that there is no need to try to debunk them. They are just wrong. You are doing exactly what I said in the OP, which is turning these matchups into 2 on 2 (KD/Curry vs Shaq/KB) You are thinking to SMALL on this topic and not realizing how much more talent the whole Warriors teams have on top of having better philosophies/schemes on BOTH sides of the ball. Shaq could easily get in foul trouble and have no chance at guarding the pick/rolls and ball movement of the Warriors.

No, I'm saying that the Lakers have an advantage on the glass and on defense. That's not just a 2v2 thing. Fisher was an elite 3PT shooter in the '01 Playoffs and Horry was reliable as well. Those guys would not be left wide open and if they were, they'd be knocking down 3s.

You have to take rule changes into account as well. It doesn't even matter which way we go because if we did it under modern rules then Shaq and KB would produce even more than they did in the early 2000s, and if we go by how the game was officiated in '01 then Steph, KD & Klay would be less effective as scorers with the amount of physicality that was allowed.

[NBAGOAT]

My bad. Misread. The idea remains the same though. The Rockets shot poorly and still took the series to 7 games. And I don't think the 2018 Rockets, despite winning 65 games, were as good as those 2000s Lakers teams.

rockets were built to counter gs however. no bad defender on perimeter a small ball lineup that's switchable everywhere to counter dray at the 5. Specifically played an iso heavy slow low turnover offense to not let gs get out in transition. people in this thread say lakers have personnel to guard gs but do they really. just having shaq involved in 80 pnrs a game with curry or durant 30 feet from the basket is a huge liability. Defense wasnt about 1v1 with the warriors unless you switched everything

[StrongLurk]

No, I'm saying that the Lakers have an advantage on the glass and on defense. That's not just a 2v2 thing. Fisher was an elite 3PT shooter in the '01 Playoffs and Horry was reliable as well. Those guys would not be left wide open and if they were, they'd be knocking down 3s.

You have to take rule changes into account as well. It doesn't even matter which way we go because if we did it under modern rules then Shaq and KB would produce even more than they did in the early 2000s, and if we go by how the game was officiated in '01 then Steph, KD & Klay would be less effective as scorers with the amount of physicality that was allowed.

Dude, you are so dumb. No team is beating the 17 Warriors. They were the best offensive and defensive team in the league and had an absurd +11.6 net rating.

The 01 Lakers would literally need another 20-point scorer (that can space the floor) added to their team to compete with the 17 Warriors. No one cares about how much you love Kobe, he's getting completely neutralized at worse by KD.

No one can stop the 17 Warriors, it's ridiculous to claim a team from the early 2000's could do that.

[tpols]

Dude, you are so dumb. No team is beating the 17 Warriors. They were the best offensive and defensive team in the league and had an absurd +11.6 net rating.

The 01 Lakers would literally need another 20-point scorer (that can space the floor) added to their team to compete with the 17 Warriors. No one cares about how much you love Kobe, he's getting completely neutralized at worse by KD.

No one can stop the 17 Warriors, it's ridiculous to claim a team from the early 2000's could do that.

Shaq would literally foul draymond out. And with no bogut the warriors would not only have nobody to guard the Shaq, they'd have nobody to protect the rim. Which would be a free for all for Kobe.

Did you not see last night's game?

Minnesota hit 18 3s and Dallas only hit 6. And the Wolves lost.

I'm not saying the Dubs couldn't get hot and win a little but they have absolutely ZERO answer for Shaq and Kobe in the paint.

[StrongLurk]

Shaq would literally foul draymond out. And with no bogut the warriors would not only have nobody to guard the Shaq, they'd have nobody to protect the rim. Which would be a free for all for Kobe.

Did you not see last night's game?

Minnesota hit 18 3s and Dallas only hit 6. And the Wolves lost.

I'm not saying the Dubs couldn't get hot and win a little but they have absolutely ZERO answer for Shaq and Kobe in the paint.

Once again you boil it down to 2 players. Get your head out of the sand. The LAKERS would not beat the WARRIORS. Bball is not 2x2. Besides, 17 Warriors still had Javale McGee, Zaza, and David West. Obviously no one is stopped Shaq but the Warriors still have bodies to throw at. The Lakers defense has no shot at doing anything to the WHOLE warriors offense. Kobe would for sure be contained though against the Warriors elite perimeter and point of attack/wing defense.

Also you are once again comparing two modern teams to each other by using the Mavs and Wolves. The REASON why basketball is played in it's current format is because it's generally the optimal/superior philosophy and scheme.

The 01 Lakers had a .191 3-point rate and only a 49.8 EFG% (that's with Shaq's insane FG% efficiency). Warriors had a .359 3-point rate and a 56.3 EFG%. That's a massive difference in scoring effectiveness from the floor. And The lakers can't make it up with free throws either since the Warriors have a big advantage there too. PLUS the Warriors were, again, a top 1-2 defense in the league. For some reason you bozo's keep assuming the Warriors defense wasn't elite...

[ImKobe]

Dude, you are so dumb. No team is beating the 17 Warriors. They were the best offensive and defensive team in the league and had an absurd +11.6 net rating.

The 01 Lakers would literally need another 20-point scorer (that can space the floor) added to their team to compete with the 17 Warriors. No one cares about how much you love Kobe, he's getting completely neutralized at worse by KD.

No one can stop the 17 Warriors, it's ridiculous to claim a team from the early 2000's could do that.

So your only argument is "no one's stopping the 2017 Warriors". Great.

'01 Lakers had a better Net Rating (+13.8) than the '17 Warriors (+13.5) in the Playoffs. You thinking that Steph & KD are on the same level as Shaq & Kobe is where you got shit really ****ed up.

[StrongLurk]

So your only argument is "no one's stopping the 2017 Warriors". Great.

'01 Lakers had a better Net Rating (+13.8) than the '17 Warriors (+13.5) in the Playoffs. You thinking that Steph & KD are on the same level as Shaq & Kobe is where you got shit really ****ed up.

You can't help by boil it down to 2 on 2 basketball . You just lose the argument at this point, have a nice day.

[tpols]

Dude I've seen Curry go cold from 3, Klay average like 16ppg in almost every Finals, Dray shoot like ass since forever, and obviously Mcgee and Zaza can't shoot at all and would be obliterated by Shaq and Kobe.

Did you not witness 2018? Harden and old Chris Paul were UP 3-2 on the Curry KD warriors. And you think Shaq and ****ing Kobe couldn't hang at all?

The way you're typing it's like you're saying they'd get ****ed up. Which is absolutely preposterous.



Most teams would back then. But top teams like the Lakers and Kings and Spurs definitely wouldn't.

[tpols]

Using +/- against the field of all 30 teams is retarded ŵhen were discussing a specific H2H matchup. The warriors after bogut left were tailor made to get ****ed by Shaq.

[StrongLurk]

Dude I've seen Curry go cold from 3, Klay average like 16ppg in almost every Finals, Dray shoot like ass since forever, and obviously Mcgee and Zaza can't shoot at all and would be obliterated by Shaq and Kobe.

Did you not witness 2018? Harden and old Chris Paul were UP 3-2 on the Curry KD warriors. And you think Shaq and ****ing Kobe couldn't hang at all?

The way you're typing it's like you're saying they'd get ****ed up. Which is absolutely preposterous.



Most teams would back then. But top teams like the Lakers and Kings and Spurs definitely wouldn't.

You are just cherry picking this whole post. Shaq/Kobe Lakers ALMOST lost some series too, remember? The 2018 Rockets were elite as hell. They went 65-17 with a +8.7 net rating. Quite acting like they were nobodies.

And AGAIN, we have another post here (tpols) literally boiling EVERYTHING down to 2x2 basketball. Why are yall so ****ing stupid?

My OP literally said this would happen and all you morons literally went ahead and did it.