MJ's 1988 DPOY is now being "Questioned". HOME vs ROAD Steals has twice as much Gap

[ImKobe]

People who read into those splits in '88 need to explain the '87 splits to me lol.

[sdot_thadon]

People who read into those splits in '88 need to explain the '87 splits to me lol.

I'd imagine it means the same shit was happening in 87 too, duh.

[Manny98]

This is massive if true haven't looked into it yet as I am busy

This literally cements LeBron as the undisputed GOAT

Im already aware of MJ getting preferential treatment from the refs but it's starting to seem like his whole career has been manufactured and massively inflated

[jlip]

I want to step away from the inflated stats subject and bring up something else rather interesting from the article. Notice what the author wrote about MJ's defensive philosophy and strategy at this stage of his career.

Jordan made sure his discontent was known. In an 18-page Sports Illustrated feature in which SI writer Curry Kirkpatrick entrenched himself inside Jordan’s growing empire, the Chicago Bulls star expressed deep resentment about his lack of recognition. In particular, Jordan called out the voting contingency about its apparent disregard for box-score statistics like blocks and steals.

“Michael Cooper is great at ball denial,” Jordan told SI. “But check his other stats...

The Chicago Bull registered another six-steal game later that month. And another. In late January against the lowly New Jersey Nets, Jordan posted a career-high and franchise-record 10 steals. He didn’t even play the fourth quarter.

The mission consumed him. After the history-making Nets game, he openly admitted to hunting for steals so he could break the record. "I knew I was close, and I asked to find out what the record was,” Jordan told the Chicago Tribune that night. “I was on a roll. I was going for it, reaching for everything.”

At this point in his career, by his own admission MJ, considered stats (blocks and steals) to be the barometer for defensive effectiveness. He even contrasted his defensive strategy against Michael Cooper's stating that Cooper focused on things such as ball denial while he, himself focused on stats. Then he also admitted that he did a lot of reaching to increase his steals quantity, in his mind, proving that he is a great defender.

This actually reinforces what the Thinking Basketball YouTuber stated about MJ's defense in his greatest peaks series. While he praised MJ's overall defense, he mentioned that MJ often reached, swiped, and gambled for steals looking for the "home-run" play when simply playing the offensive player straight up may have been a more effective option.

[Hey Yo]

Jig is up on that DPOY award and 3rage is raging.


MJ given more steals than the opponent had turnovers

[3ba11]

Jig is up on that DPOY award and 3rage is raging.


MJ given more steals than the opponent had turnovers

it's called fraud son.. one day you'll understand how it works

[RRR3]

it's called fraud son.. one day you'll understand how it works

MJ's stats were literally just exposed as fraudulent and you're acting like a baby who got its bottle taken away

[3ba11]

Similar to the "can't go left" or "done with the 90's", this fraud takes a 2 examples of imperfect stat-keeping and claims and entire season can be discredited - how long did they look to find a game where the steals were off?... Why not do a bigger sample or show your work more?... Why not look at games where he had 8 and 7 steals to see if they're legit??... Why only use 2 games as the example?... Because it's fraud - they likely looked at many games and found 1 or 2 where things were off - that's all they needed for this fraud.. Who's checking their work?... No one... who's reporting on their work?.. Klutch minions like Broussard.. It's amazing this stuff happens.

[sdot_thadon]

Similar to the "can't go left" or "done with the 90's", this fraud takes a 2 examples of imperfect stat-keeping and claims and entire season can be discredited - how long did they look to find a game where the steals were off?... Why not do a bigger sample or show your work more?... Why not look at games where he had 8 and 7 steals to see if they're legit??... Why only use 2 games as the example?... Because it's fraud - they likely looked at many games and found 1 or 2 where things were off - that's all they needed for this fraud.. Who's checking their work?... No one... who's reporting on their work?.. Klutch minions like Broussard.. It's amazing this stuff happens.

They actually used 5 or 6 games they could get the tape on from that season. And the home/ away splits support the theory. The tape proved it, in that stretch they analyzed he was given like 16 phantom steals if iirc. That's enough smoke to start a fire.

[gengiskhan]

Here it is guys.......NBA Released game!

The so-called ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM (1/29/88) HOME game!

I would rather see the FULL COMPLETE game!

5 CLEAN steals + atleast 4 MJ INITIATED steals = 8-9 steals count so far!

NBA released "incomplete" highlights reel here!.

Love to see a 20 min detailed version of this steller defensive clinic of a game by MJ.

If I waste my time to see "entire" Minute 1 to minute 48 of this game.....MJ will be sitting on 12-13 total steals in all reality.

From the way he is playing here. Guy was a defensive monster. That gambling defense whenever the ball is around him is just too quick.



0:15 - Steal 1
0:25 - This one is tough. It's either a block by Jordan or a tipped pass by Jordan and a steal by Brad Sellers
0:42 - Block by Jordan
1:06 - Steal 2
1:47 - Steal 3
2:12 - Steal by Charles Oakley
2:39 - Steal 4
3:02 - Tipped pass by Jordan, Paxson credited with steal because he was the person who changed possession
3:10 - Tipped pass by Jordan, Sellers credited with steal
3:24 - Steal 5

[sdot_thadon]

I want to step away from the inflated stats subject and bring up something else rather interesting from the article. Notice what the author wrote about MJ's defensive philosophy and strategy at this stage of his career.

Jordan made sure his discontent was known. In an 18-page Sports Illustrated feature in which SI writer Curry Kirkpatrick entrenched himself inside Jordan’s growing empire, the Chicago Bulls star expressed deep resentment about his lack of recognition. In particular, Jordan called out the voting contingency about its apparent disregard for box-score statistics like blocks and steals.

“Michael Cooper is great at ball denial,” Jordan told SI. “But check his other stats...

The Chicago Bull registered another six-steal game later that month. And another. In late January against the lowly New Jersey Nets, Jordan posted a career-high and franchise-record 10 steals. He didn’t even play the fourth quarter.

The mission consumed him. After the history-making Nets game, he openly admitted to hunting for steals so he could break the record. "I knew I was close, and I asked to find out what the record was,” Jordan told the Chicago Tribune that night. “I was on a roll. I was going for it, reaching for everything.”

At this point in his career, by his own admission MJ, considered stats (blocks and steals) to be the barometer for defensive effectiveness. He even contrasted his defensive strategy against Michael Cooper's stating that Cooper focused on things such as ball denial while he, himself focused on stats. Then he also admitted that he did a lot of reaching to increase his steals quantity, in his mind, proving that he is a great defender.

This actually reinforces what the Thinking Basketball YouTuber stated about MJ's defense in his greatest peaks series. While he praised MJ's overall defense, he mentioned that MJ often reached, swiped, and gambled for steals looking for the "home-run" play when simply playing the offensive player straight up may have been a more effective option.

The MJ I hear about around here would never......this is what happens when grown ass men continue with children's narratives despite clearly having the ability to be more critical. "Mj didn't play for stats guys, this is a pr campaign "

[3ba11]

They actually used 5 or 6 games they could get the tape on from that season. And the home/ away splits support the theory. The tape proved it.

5 games isn't a sample - I'm sure they could get more games........ And they only provided specifics on 1 of the games... He literally used a one-off to make his case.

Jordan had a bunch of high-steal games that year so why not look at his 8-steal and 7-steal games?.. Anyone could go check them out, which would be offsetting proof to the tiny sample that Haberstroh claims to have..

Without a much bigger sample and showing their work, it's fraud.. MJ could hire a team to verify his stats and then sue Haberstroh for libel and slander, since Haberstroh used a couple one-offs to make his case.

Again, they only showed a one-off example from the hawks game, which I showed above was sketchy at best.. .The only other specifics that they provided was the 10-steal game that they said was wrong because the NBA's highlight video of that game only showed 6 of them... wtf??... that isn't evidence..

Btw, they made this same claim about Jaren Jackson Jr. and a team went back and proved his numbers were legit - I'm sure that could be done here too because only a 5-game sample was allegedly used, and specifics were only provided on 1 game.. It's likely that all of this came from the Hawks game and the NBA highlight video on the 10-steal game.

[gengiskhan]

Similar to the "can't go left" or "done with the 90's", this fraud takes a 2 examples of imperfect stat-keeping and claims and entire season can be discredited - how long did they look to find a game where the steals were off?... Why not do a bigger sample or show your work more?... Why not look at games where he had 8 and 7 steals to see if they're legit??... Why only use 2 games as the example?... Because it's fraud - they likely looked at many games and found 1 or 2 where things were off - that's all they needed for this fraud.. Who's checking their work?... No one... who's reporting on their work?.. Klutch minions like Broussard.. It's amazing this stuff happens.

Its all out there!

Klutch Media working OT to discredit MJs DPOY some way some how.

Month ago, on Pod Cast, LBJ shamelessly questioned 2012 DPOY win.

Klutch Media has been working extra hard, handing that cash doe, all over ESPN and paid media.

Get that astreriks next go 1988 DPOY win. appx 135/260. is too much for LeColluder and his Media Minions to handle.

Remember the rhetoric! If LeBalco cannot do it defensively, now one else should be able to.

[3ba11]

Its all out there!

Klutch Media working OT to discredit MJs DPOY some way some how.

Month ago, on Pod Cast, LBJ shamelessly questioned 2012 DPOY win.

Klutch Media has been working extra hard, handing that cash doe, all over ESPN and paid media.

Get that astreriks next go 1988 DPOY win. appx 135/260. is too much for LeColluder and his Media Minions to handle.

Remember the rhetoric! If LeBalco cannot do it defensively, now one else should be able to.

The entire thing is based off the Hawks game (posted above) and then the NBA's highlight reel of Jordan's 10-steal game that only showed 6 steals.

The entire schtick is based off this - he claims that he watched 5 games but where are they? Which games? He only specifies the Hawks game and the 10-steal game - that's it - and the 10-steal game could've absolutely had 10 steals but the NBA just didn't put all 10 in the highlight reel.

Regardless, a 5-game sample isn't enough to take anyone's award away and it amazes me how the 182% number is considered a big deal when many DPOY's were in the 150-160 range... 182 for an abnormal player like MJ just doesn't seem noteworthy - the other DPOY's barely scored, while MJ was the goat scorer, so I wouldn't expect his metrics to be like the other DPOY's.

Basically, if you're going to take someone's award away, then provide a 20-game sample with timestamps for all 30 of the fake steals - put it on a webpage somewhere so anyone can verify the work - it wouldn't be that hard to do that.. Then this would be substantial enough to truly bring into question the DPOY - but 5 games.... 5?... And you only really talk about 1?... It's absurd.

[eliteballer]

Scottie Pippen says NBA scorekeepers in the 90’s fabricated stats for Michael Jordan:

“Say I deflected the ball and tapped it over to [MJ]. I should get the credit with the steal right? Nope. More often that not, the steal went into his column in the stat sheet and I could do nothing about it… One night a scorekeeper came into the locker room… to hand the stat sheets to Phil Jackson… I couldn’t believe the look the guy gave Michael: ‘See MJ, we take care of you.’”

https://x.com/LegionHoops/status/1804507637196964308