ISH all-time draft thread

[tpols]

Basketball is more than "how many three points shooters you have", but having them in today's era keeps defenders honest. In today's league if you run any line-up that lack shooters defenses will exploit that, they will just key in on the star players without facing much consequences. And with all due respect to ISB, he ran a Shaq-Russell lineup in one of our previous drafts. I pointed out to him that having Russell play the 4 takes away some of his rim protection and it makes life harder for Shaq on offense since teams could zero in on Shaq since Russell wouldn't provide you any spacing. After the draft, when we ran the poll on realgm multiple users pointed out the same thing when evaluating his team.

Yea I mean Bill Russell and Shaq is an awkward combination. 2 centers who can't shoot even from midrange.

Danks team has Chris Paul, Kobe, and Paul Pierce on the perimeter. CP3 is a sniper level shooter and Kobe / Pierce are both very good shooters... literally it's the biggest part of their games. Mchale and Kareem didn't need to dunk it every time either they had shooting touch away from the rim. So the criticism here is totally over blown.

Taking Dr. J in like the last round as a bench scorer isn't a bad thing. Guy was part of a GOAT 1983 Sixer team that swept the playoffs and is universally considered a top 20 GOAT and pioneer of basketball. To clown that pick is absurd.

[RRR3]

CP3 isn't a sniper from 3, and has to be pushed to not be low volume there. Kobe was not a good 3PT shooter by modern standards by any means no matter how much you delude yourself. Pierce was a good 3PT shooter, yes. Also there isn't a single team who plays with two bigs who can't shoot 3s now at the same time. Not a single one. It doesn't work. You can get away with a non shooting 5 but not a non shooting 5 and 4.

[tpols]

There isn't a single team today that has Kareem or Kevin McHales level of post and midrange scorer either. Except Jokic and to a lesser extent Embiid.

Not everything comes down to 3s when we're dealing with superstar talent. You're shitting on McHale @ the 4 when he produced a higher offensive output from 2pt range than most stretch 4s do. He had monster efficiency and game inside the arc.

And again Chris Paul is literally one of the best shooting point guards ever. His jumper and spacing were terrific. Kobe even by a haters opinion is a top 15 GOAT and he was mostly a jump shooter whose shot was widely respected and chased after with double teams on the perimeter. To say Kobe couldn't shoot and space the floor is just a total nonsense opinion. And then Pierce obviously could as well. Kareem and Mchale have some of the best big man shooting touch ever too.

That team is not lacking for shooting skill at all.

[j3lademaster]

Basketball is more complicated than how many three-point shooters you have on the floor. I don't know how many times I need to repeat this to you over the years.

No one said anyone here should have stacked their teams with Korvers or Kaponos, you just can’t have a deficiency there. Just like defense, you can’t just draft one or two good defenders and expect that to make up for everything.

Well, then again tpols suggested I should have taken Horry over Rasheed Wallace. I felt like my Kidd pick deserved a lot more criticism than my Sheed pick.

[dankok8]

Especially with super teams. I feel like the main reason today's teams score more is because the role players can bang 3s instead of long 2s with leads to higher offensive output and gives additional spacing to star talent. But when it comes to these super teams, all of that kind of flies out the window.

The 2008 Redeem team didn't have a great 3pt shooting starting lineup. Yet they totally outscored the 2024 team in the championship matches who did. And ironically, they had a Kobe Chris Paul backcourt that apparently "can't shoot". (total joke)

Stars spamming 3s is honestly kind of stupid unless they're steph curry or Durant or something, and even then you're opening yourself up to a ton of variance. Hot and cold... we see it with Tatum types and a lot of other players even Curry himself. Having a team full of superstar 2pt bucket getters is always going to be a sure thing.

Not to mention Dr J/McHale/Kareem can all shoot up to 15 feet really well. They just aren't 3pt shooters.

As my last pick, I am going for a monster 3pt shooter though. Give me Glen Rice. Dude shot 44% from 3pt range (!) on 5 attempts a game from 1996-1998 and then was a key player on the 2000 championship Lakers.

[1987_Lakers]

Can people post their rosters while making their final selections?

[Im Still Ballin]

It's just poor logic. Basketball analysis needs to match the reality of the game's complexity. Fans like to simplify things because it makes it easier to understand.

RRR3 is 100% someone who thought replacing Ben Simmons with a star that can shoot would make Philly better but it didn't. Not by any measurable degree. And all these years later the most dangerous the 76ers have ever looked was in the 2019 Playoffs with a lineup of Simmons-Reddick-Butler-Harris-Embiid.

That 2018-19 post-trade starting lineup was ridiculously good. +22.4 per 100 possessions in the regular season and +26.7 per 100 possessions in the playoffs per Cleaning the Glass. And they had one good three-point shooter. Horrible shooting/spacing; that lineup shouldn't have worked according to RRR3 but it did.

If only they had a good bench...

[RRR3]

There isn't a single team today that has Kareem or Kevin McHales level of post and midrange scorer either. Except Jokic and to a lesser extent Embiid.

Not everything comes down to 3s when we're dealing with superstar talent. You're shitting on McHale @ the 4 when he produced a higher offensive output from 2pt range than most stretch 4s do. He had monster efficiency and game inside the arc.

And again Chris Paul is literally one of the best shooting point guards ever. His jumper and spacing were terrific. Kobe even by a haters opinion is a top 15 GOAT and he was mostly a jump shooter whose shot was widely respected and chased after with double teams on the perimeter. To say Kobe couldn't shoot and space the floor is just a total nonsense opinion. And then Pierce obviously could as well. Kareem and Mchale have some of the best big man shooting touch ever too.

That team is not lacking for shooting skill at all.

From midrange, ttrolls, midrange. Yes they were some of the GOAT midrange shooters, but good luck beating 3s with 2s.

[RRR3]

It's just poor logic. Basketball analysis needs to match the reality of the game's complexity.

RRR3 is 100% someone who thought replacing Ben Simmons with a star that can shoot would make Philly better but it didn't. Not by any measurable degree. And all these years later the most dangerous the 76ers have ever looked was in the 2019 Playoffs with a lineup of Simmons-Reddick-Butler-Harris-Embiid.

That 2018-19 post-trade starting lineup was ridiculously good. +22.4 per 100 possessions in the regular season and +26.7 per 100 possessions in the playoffs per Cleaning the Glass. And they had one good three-point shooter. Horrible shooting/spacing; that lineup shouldn't have worked according to RRR3 but it did.

And they lost as soon as they faced a team they couldn't overwhelm with raw talent. They beat the Brooklyn Nets and lost to Kawhi and shooters despite the fact Kawhi could barely move. None of these bad shooting teams drafted are that far ahead of the other teams talent wise.

[RRR3]

Not to mention Dr J/McHale/Kareem can all shoot up to 15 feet really well. They just aren't 3pt shooters.

As my last pick, I am going for a monster 3pt shooter though. Give me Glen Rice. Dude shot 44% from 3pt range (!) on 5 attempts a game from 1996-1998 and then was a key player on the 2000 championship Lakers.

Teams will concede midrange shots even to guys who are good from there though, that's the difference. I'd much rather have one of those elite paint guys shooting midrange shots at 45 TS% then being at the rim or a guy who is capable from 3. You have to shoot 50% from midrange to be equal in value to a guy shooting 33% on 3s.

[1987_Lakers]

Dankok's final roster

C - Kareem | Zo
F - McHale
F - Pierce | Dr. J
G - Kobe | Rice
G - CP3

[Im Still Ballin]

And they lost as soon as they faced a team they couldn't overwhelm with raw talent. They beat the Brooklyn Nets and lost to Kawhi and shooters despite the fact Kawhi could barely move. None of these bad shooting teams drafted are that far ahead of the other teams talent wise.

You are incapable of arguing in good faith. Why do I even bother with you...

[RRR3]

You are incapable of arguing in good faith. Why do I even bother with you...

That was in good faith, but ok

[Im Still Ballin]

Steaming.

In all these years on ISH I would've expected you to mature a little.

[1987_Lakers]

Jmaster’s final roster

C- Duncan - Wemby
F -Rasheed
F- Middleton
G - R. Miller - SGA
G - Magic - Kidd