The Athletics 100 GOAT Players List

[Phoenix]

I actually glossed over the list the first time so just having a 2nd look. Luka right behind Wade?

[3ba11]

.
"DOMINANT CHAMPIONS" THAT AVERAGED 1 LOSS PER ROUND OR LESS (4 LOSSES MAX) SINCE 1997 AND THE 1ST OPTION FOR THAT RUN:

1. 2017 Warriors (16-1)........... DURANT

2. 2001 Lakers (15-1).............. SHAQ

3. 1999 Spurs (15-2)............... DUNCAN

4. 2024 Celtics (16-3).............. TATUM

5. 2023 Nuggets (16-4)............ JOKIC

6. 2007 Spurs (16-4)............... DUNCAN

7. 2002 Lakers (15-4).............. SHAQ

8. 1997 Bulls (15-4)................ JORDAN

"DYNASTIES" THAT MOSTLY WON FOR A MATERIAL STRETCH OF 5+ YEARS (I.E. 3 IN 5) AND THEIR 1ST OPTION:

1. Chicago Bulls..................... JORDAN

2. San Antonio Spurs.............. DUNCAN

3. Los Angeles Lakers............. SHAQ

4. Golden State Warriors......... CURRY

Since possession-tracking began in 1997, bigs or jumpshooters were required at 1st option for 8 of 8 "dominant champions" that averaged 1 loss or less per round for their title run (4 losses max), and 4 of 4 "dynasties" that mostly won for a material stretch of 5 years (i.e. 3 in 5).. So that's 12 of 12 instances of dynasties or dominant champions (the best basketball) where primary ball-handlers were NOT the 1st option in favor of bigs or jumpshooters.. Since the best bigs and jumpshooters produce the best basketball, they're superior to the best ball-dominators, which easily puts guys like Lebron and Oscar out of the top 10 for anyone that doesn't want them to be there - i.e. since primary ball-handlers cannot be 1st option for the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can.

The issue is that high-scoring primary ballhandlers like Luka, Lebron or Harden score large amounts without being assisted by teammates (low assisted rates), so they have a large volume of unassisted buckets that hinders ball movement.. Otoh, highly-assisted 1st options like bigs and jumpshooters produce high assist teams and foster the great ball movement that every dynasty has.. Since 1997, players that averaged 25 ppg and above 50% assisted rate had top 5 assist teams 36 of 87 times (41%) and averaged 10th in team assists, while players that averaged 25 ppg and below 40% assisted rate (primary ballhandlers) produced top 5 assist teams 5 of 96 times (5%) and averaged 18th in team assists.

[L.Kizzle]

I actually glossed over the list the first time so just having a 2nd look. Luka right behind Wade?

Five All-NBA 1st teams already. Wade only had 2.

[Phoenix]

Five All-NBA 1st teams already. Wade only had 2.

Eh, for me comparing all-nba works best when players are in the same era competing for those spots. So comparing Wade against Kobe, Vince, Tmac, AI, Nash, Kidd etc etc makes sense. I understand the list probably doesn't account for that, but context matters. Also, Isiah has 3 all-nba so why is he 20 spots behind Wade( we agree he's rated way too low). I really don't want to open up the link to even bother reading the logic being applied.