Imagine the huge failure if OKC loses to a +500 underdog, yet Lebron did in 09' & 10

[SouBeachTalents]

Were they injured and missing their star guard?.. This kills any team in the playoffs.

So Dirk was massively-favored over a healthy team, while Lebron barely 1/3 the favorite against an injured, 1-star team.

Furthermore, Lebron only turned the Cavs into a 45-50 win team, so the 66 wins with Mo Williams represents REAL IMPROVEMENT - aka the Cavs were a good team that was facing an injured team, so they were heavily-favored... It's pretty simple.

Very reminiscent of how Jordan couldn't buy a winning record his first few years with the Bulls, then Pippen shows up and they instantly win 50 games and get out of the first round. So the 50+ wins and playoff success with Pippen represents REAL IMPROVEMENT.

[3ba11]

Very reminiscent of how Jordan couldn't buy a winning record his first few years with the Bulls, then Pippen shows up and they instantly win 50 games and get out of the first round. So the 50+ wins and playoff success with Pippen represents REAL IMPROVEMENT.

Any great player should be able to develop a lottery team into 50 wins by their 3rd healthy season, and that's what we saw from 06' Lebron and 88' Jordan, or many other greats.

The difference is that Jordan didn't need any help to win 50 games and make the 2nd Round, while Lebron needed the East all-star center, a great coach, and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen.. Lebron was lottery until Hughes got there (or AD in the West).

And most superstars enter their prime around their 3rd healthy season... Jordan was simply entering his prime in 1988 with MVP/DPOY season, so it could've been any 7 ppg bench player alongside him - it didn't have to be Pippen, and Jordan would've 3-peated from 88' to 90' if it was a star like "Bad Boy Killer" James Worthy, or Laker-killer Kevin Johnson, or many other guys...

[3ba11]

Btw, you're saying that being favored means the player is good (which I agree with), but Lebron was underdog in most Finals despite having preseason favorite and super-team most years.. Bron-ball barely won 50 games with the preseason favorite, so he fell to underdog.

[ImKobe]

He went out in January? Bet most people don’t remember that.

It wasn’t like he got injured the round before..

A healthier Magic team would've been seen as a bigger threat. Duh. I think the people back then knew that Jameer was injured..

[ShawkFactory]

A healthier Magic team would've been seen as a bigger threat. Duh. I think the people back then knew that Jameer was injured..

No, it really wasn’t that big of a talking point. Because again, he had been out for a long time, they traded for a similar level player once he went down, and didn’t miss a beat at all. Had the 3rd best record in the NBA without Nelson behind only the Cavs and Lakers, and beat the defending champs.

I’ll say it to you because you’re more reasonable, but they weren’t seen as a threat because at the time the Cavs looked like an absolute juggernaut. They swept the first two rounds by an average margin of something like 18ppg. They just looked unstoppable and people were taking notice. No one was like “and now the have the Magic WITHOUT Jameer Nelson!”. Not at all.

[Hey Yo]

Lebron faced even shittier teams in the worst-ever conference - teams that won far less games and were old or injured.

Heck, Dirk was -1800 favorite when they lost in the 2007 1st Round, so I guess that makes him the GOAT based on your logic..

And then Lebron lost to Dirk, lol... I'm glad I didn't fall for this fraud like you guys did

How could Bosh be considered the 3rd best player in the East if the conference was the worst ever and he was only able to win 3 playoff games in his first 7yrs?

What made him a superstar in your eyes?

[SouBeachTalents]

How could Bosh be considered the 3rd best player in the East if the conference was the worst ever and he was only able to win 3 playoff games in his first 7yrs?

What made him a superstar in your eyes?

I've pointed out to him several times that Dwight was unanimously considered better than Bosh, but that won't stop him from knowingly continue to push that lie

[3ba11]

The Magic traded for a similar level player once Jameer went down

^^^ This is an obvious lie.. Don't make me post the stats and resumes.

Skip to My Lou was a role player and punchline, while Jameer Nelson was an all-star and closer.. People said things like "Remember when Dwight beat Lebron with Skip to my Lou at point guard" and actually someone made that thread on this forum.

Everyone knows that it costs a team in the playoffs to miss their star guard, and it did - the Magic lacked championship firepower without him..

JJ Reddick actually said on Lebron's podcast that "the Magic were tough for you guys because they had a point guard that could hit threes off-the-dribble in Jameer Nelson".... but he forgot that Jameer didn't play in that series and the Cavs had that too in Mo Williams..

and didn’t miss a beat at all.

It matters in the playoffs to miss an all-star guard - OKC could do well for part of a regular season without Jaylen, but no one would expect them to make it through the playoffs without him.

No one was like “and now the have the Magic WITHOUT Jameer Nelson!”. Not at all

Wrong.. Everyone knew that the Magic would suffer in the playoffs without their star guard.

[1987_Lakers]

Magic were better without Nelson in that run, someone said it perfectly. With Rafer, it allowed guys like Hedo & Lewis to shine. The moment Nelson came back in the Finals, you could see he disrupted their offensive flow.

[3ba11]

Magic were better without Nelson in that run, someone said it perfectly. With Rafer, it allowed guys like Hedo & Lewis to shine. The moment Nelson came back in the Finals, you could see he disrupted their offensive flow.

JJ Reddick said on Lebron's podcast that Jameer Nelson was the key to the series.

He said that Jameer was one of the few guards that could hit threes off-the-dribble back then (45% from three) and that's what made the Magic hard to beat... Reddick actually thought that Jameer played in that series and Lebron never corrected him that he didn't... Lebron didn't say "oh no, rafer alston from And1 fame stepped in, so the Magic were still tough"... He didn't say that - he let the error stand because he knew that the presence of an all-star guard and dog like Jameer made the Magic look much tougher.

And Rashard Lewis was an all-star in 2009, so he fit great with Jameer - the Magic had 3 all-stars that year, but it cost them championship firepower and the title when Jameer the Fear went down...

[ShawkFactory]

Lol a literal player on the team not remembering whether Nelson played or not in a series doesn’t help your point like you think. Shows they didn’t miss a beat.

[3ba11]

Lol a literal player on the team not remembering whether Nelson played or not in a series doesn’t help your point like you think. Shows they didn’t miss a beat.

Missing a star guard hurts in the playoffs and it cost the Magic championship firepower and the title.

The Magic had the injury excuse but still beat the 09' Cavs... that's like the 15' Cavs winning the Finals..

Btw, you're ignoring that this is a pattern - this isn't a one-off... Oddsmakers hated Lebron for failing expectation for 3 straight years from 09' to 11', so they made his veteran super-team an underdog to baby Westbrick in 12'.. All of this is a huge knock on Lebron and exposes his game/skills

[ShawkFactory]

The Magic had the injury excuse but still beat the 09' Cavs... that's like the 15' Cavs winning the Finals..

I know you’ve said this a couple time now, no doubt dying for a response so I’ll bite…

…I applaud your trolling effort on that one

[3ba11]

.
Jameer..... 17 on 50%... 45% threes... 5.1 BPM... 20.6 PER... 0.220 WA/48... 4.9 on 49% in 4th
Rafer......... 12 on 41%... 31% threes... 2.0 BPM... 15.6 PER... 0.135 WS/48... 1.5 on 28% in 4th


Teams are expected to miss their star guard and closer in the playoffs, so the Magic were big underdogs

[ShawkFactory]

+2000 preseason odds too. You’d think with Dwight, Lewis, Hedo and a super star like Jameer Nelson they would have seen a little more love there.