Outline of factors that disqualify Lebron from goat

[3ba11]

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A) Never produced a dynasty/great team


B) Low team ceiling regardless of cast (i.e. produces perennial Finals underdogs and losers)

* Perennial Finals underdog status was due to inferior chemistry and not needing more roster help, since the rosters were initially favored in the preseason

C) Produces low assist teams that caused assist deficits in every series loss for 18 playoff runs

* Lebron's ball-dominance increases his teammates' assisted buckets/assisted rate, aka "turns everyone into spot-up shooter", which craters their assists and causes low assist teams... These low assist teams caused assist deficits in every series loss for 18 playoff runs.

D) Zero young player development in 22 years (zero young players grew into meaningful producers on his watch), i.e. turns everyone into spot-up shooter


E) Couldn't win organically with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player and needed to join opposing franchise players

* his skillset of imposing spot-up roles doesn't develop young players, thereby needing ready-made stars

F) Getting locked up in a playoff series

* 26 on 35% and 5 TO's in 08' 2nd Round

* 22 on 35% and 6 TO's in 07' Finals

* 18 ppg in 11' Finals

* 22.8 ppg in 14' ECF

* 22.8 ppg in 16' 1st Round

* 23.6 in 21' 1st Round

* only 26 ppg in two 7-game series losses (06', 08')

* 12 series under 25 ppg

G) Teammates led in scoring for entire title runs (20'), or would-be title runs (11')


H) Reputation for losing 4th quarter leads

* multiple 4th quarter leads lost in 07' Finals, 09' ECF, 10' ECSF, 11' Finals, and 21-25 Playoffs

I) WOAT clutch efficiency and turnovers


J) Weaknesses in individual game:

* FT's, turnovers, offensive rebounding, mid-range, running or scoring off screens aka "off-ball", and more

K) No bag


L) Losing with homecourt (5 times)


M) All-time to leader in turnovers, missed shots, and Finals losses


N) Losing record with every type of good team:

* 3-4 with preseason favorites
* 4-8 with all-star teammates
* 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds
* 4-6 with Finals teams

O) Everyone's b*tch, aka lottery record vs Warriors, Spurs, Nuggets, Mavs and Magic despite being in prime with all-star teammates and preseason favorites


P) 0-7 on last possession of Finals game, aka never scored on last possession of a 1-possession Finals game


Q) Goat failure of expectation

* When he entered the league, no one expected that he would give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter

* He never "ruled the East" because he lost twice as an OKC-level favorite in 09' and 10', which forced him to flee and put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team (the "decision").

* His upset losses in 09' and 10' came on the heels of getting locked up in 07' and 08', so he wet the bed for 4 straight years and therefore was forced to flee and form super-teams.

[sdot_thadon]

More like an outline of why Op is a homo. Bro, nobody gives af about your delusional reasoning. I cant wait till Mj comes out on NBC and says you guys are all idiots. What will you do then?

[Full Court]

OP has made an airtight case that I guarantee will send the Bronie fluffers into a rage.

In addition to all he mentioned though, the 2011 finals (worst choke job of all time) alone disqualified lebron from being in the GOAT conversation. But even in addition to THAT, he has nearly FIFTY choke jobs in the post season alone.

Being a benevolent purveyor of information, Full Court went ahead and documented them for you all:


2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.

Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.

Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.

2009 game 3 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.

2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.

2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.

Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.

Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.

Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.

Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.

Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.

2013 game 2 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.

Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.

2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.

2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.

Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.

Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.

2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.

Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.

2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.

2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.

Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.

Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.

Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.

2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.

Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.

Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.

2023 game 5 against Memphis. 15 points on 29% shooting. 1-9 from three. LOSS.

Game 1 against Golden State. 22 points on 38% shooting. 1-8 from three.

Game 2 against Denver. 22 points. 0-6 from three. LOSS.

Game 4 against Denver. Wasted multiple possessions in 4th quarter, missed key shots, and blew the game-tying shot in the last possession. SWEPT.

2024 game 1 against Denver. 0 points in the fourth quarter of a close game. Actually, he had two points, but that was from an uncontested layup in the final minute of the game after Denver had already closed the game out. LOSS

Game 2 against Denver. The game is tied and the Lakers have the final possession. Instead of running the clock down, Lebron clanks a low-IQ three point shot, leaving Denver with plenty of time for a final possession. Murray, who is way more clutch than Lebron, makes the buzzer beater. LOSS.

2025 game 1 against Minnesota. 19 points in an embarrassing blowout loss.

Game 4 against Minnesota. ZERO points in the fourth quarter of a razor-close must win game. LOSS.

Game 5 against Minnesota. ONE field goal in the fourth quarter of elimination game (not counting an uncontested layup in garbage time). LOSS and ELIMINATED.

[3ba11]

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REVISED outline of factors that disqualify Lebron from goat:



A) Never produced a dynasty/great team


B) Low team ceiling regardless of cast (i.e. produces perennial Finals underdogs and losers)

* Perennial Finals underdog status was due to inferior chemistry and not needing more roster help, since the rosters were initially favored on-paper in the preseason

C) Produces low ball movement and assist teams that caused assist deficits in every series loss of Lebron's 18 playoff runs

* Lebron's ball-dominance increases his teammates' assisted buckets/assisted rate, aka "turns everyone into spot-up shooter", which craters their assists and causes low assist teams... These low assist teams caused assist deficits in every series loss of Lebron's 18 playoff runs.

D) Zero young player development in 22 years (zero young players grew into meaningful producers on his watch), aka turns everyone into spot-up shooter


E) Couldn't win organically with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player and needed to join opposing franchise players

* his skillset of imposing spot-up roles doesn't develop young players, thereby needing ready-made stars

F) Bad at chemistry

* Lebron's high-scoring, primary ball-handler (aka "ball-dominator") skillset imposes spot-up roles, which prevents elite roster construction, chemistry, player development and great teams.

G) Can't carry scoring load vs top teams (too ball-dominant at high scoring levels)

* Lebron's inability to carry the "star" category of scoring requires more stars and prevents GM's from getting defensive help or good role players.. So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction compared to MJ, while his aforementioned skillet of imposing spot-up roles further hampers roster construction.

H) The goat meltdown and goat choke in 2010 and 2011, respectively


I) MVP quality

* only half of Lebron's MVP's include titles/FMVP's, while none include scoring title and only half include all-defense

J) Defense (all-defense for short 5-year window, and none in his 30's)


K) Getting locked up in a playoff series

* 26 on 35% and 5 TO's in 08' 2nd Round

* 22 on 35% and 6 TO's in 07' Finals

* 18 ppg in 11' Finals

* only 26 ppg in two 7-game series losses (06', 08'), or the 10' meltdown vs Celtics

* 12 series under 25 ppg

L) Teammates led in scoring for entire title runs (20'), or would-be title runs (11')


M) Reputation for losing 4th quarter leads

* lost multiple 4th quarter leads in 07' Finals, 09' ECF, 10' ECSF, 11' Finals, and 21-25 Playoffs

N) WOAT clutch efficiency and turnovers


O) Weaknesses in individual game:

* FT's, turnovers, offensive rebounding, mid-range, running or scoring off screens aka "off-ball", and more

P) No bag


Q) Losing with homecourt (5 times)


R) All-time leader in turnovers, missed shots, and Finals losses


S) Losing record with every type of good team:

* 3-4 with preseason favorites
* 4-8 with all-star teammates
* 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds
* 4-6 with Finals teams

T) Everyone's ragdoll, aka lottery record vs Warriors, Spurs, Nuggets, Mavs, T'Wolves and Magic despite being in prime with all-star teammates and/or preseason favorites


U) 0-7 on last possession of Finals game, aka never scored on last possession of a 1-possession Finals game


V) Goat failure of expectation

* When Lebron entered the league, no one expected that he would give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter

* Lebron never "ruled the East" because he lost twice as an OKC-level favorite in 09' and 10', which forced him to flee and put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team (the "decision").

* His upset losses in 09' and 10' came on the heels of getting locked up in 07' and 08', so he wet the bed for 4 straight years and was forced to flee to form super-teams.

[bullettooth]

The flopping. It's cheating and there's no excuse for it but he does it so often it's insulting to the game, the fans, his opponents and to his own "integrity;" he has none.

Also the entitlement and narcissism; can't wait until he retires, he's done a lot of damage to NBA/basketball culture, so much so that all his dickriders go out of their way to deny it. Dude's gone out of his way to find shortcuts to win rings and now that he realizes he'll never win another one, cementing the fact that he never surpassed MJ, drives him mad and is trying to change the narrative about "chasing ring culture" which HE fucking created; but like clockwork, watch the douchebags LeBron nuthuggers deny this.

[Walk on Water]

More like an outline of why Op is a homo. Bro, nobody gives af about your delusional reasoning. I cant wait till Mj comes out on NBC and says you guys are all idiots. What will you do then?

Delusional reasoning? Are you okay? LeBum is 3 and 6 in 22 years. That is not impressive AT ALL you dummy. Once again, that's NOT impressive at all. If he was like 6 and 3 or 7 and 4, then maybe you would have a case. But with his failures, HELL NO. Lebron ain't great.