Most guys in 90s had Stockton > Isiah, so Stockton/Malone is like having Isiah/Duncan

[3ba11]

plus a better producer than Klay at 3rd option (Hornacek), while also having a good defensive cast of Ostertag, Russell, and Shandon Anderson (in addition to all-defenders Stockton & Malone).

so the 98' Jazz were stacked, which is why they "gentlemen" swept Popovich/Duncan/Robinson and Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1nl5hzIYWP4?app=desktop

[Hey Yo]

2015 LeBron lost his 2nd and 3rd option but still beat 4 All-Star Atlanta in the ECF.

[3ba11]

2015 LeBron lost his 2nd and 3rd option but still beat 4 All-Star Atlanta in the ECF.

Curry got no credit for beating the injured Cavs in 2015, yet Lebron's biggest accomplishment was beating the injured baby Celtics in 2018 (#13 SRS).

it's called a double standard.

regarding the 15' Hawks (#4 SRS) - JR Smith averaged 18 on 60% against them, so Lebron still never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick, aka he never carried weak help over top teams..

[sdot_thadon]

No ****ing body had Stockton over Isaiah in the 90s. He only made the dream team over zeke due to people being in their feelings. Stockton wasn't even really seen as a star he was a role player deluxe like Reeves.

[1987_Lakers]

No ****ing body had Stockton over Isaiah in the 90s. He only made the dream team over zeke due to people being in their feelings. Stockton wasn't even really seen as a star he was a role player deluxe like Reeves.

That's what I was thinking. Sure, most people have Stockton over Isiah now because of his longevity, but highly unlikely that was the case during the 90's.

[sdot_thadon]

That's what I was thinking. Sure, most people have Stockton over Isiah now because of his longevity, but highly unlikely that was the case during the 90's.

It's not even so much the longevity as it is the narrative imo. Zeke has been getting buried since the fall of the badboys and now people dont really see him for what he was during his era. I will say this if I have a dynamic scorer, Stockton is a better fit next to him, he'll stay out of the way and help the main guy get easier buckets and score when called upon. But if i dont have "the guy" im taking Zeke all day every day.

[John8204]

That's what I was thinking. Sure, most people have Stockton over Isiah now because of his longevity, but highly unlikely that was the case during the 90's.

Timing is also a huge factor, 80's had a ton of PG's but not too many legendary PF's. Malone set a new standard for the position and he was chasing Kareem. 00-10 we got more clarity in how you could have a bunch of Malone's but Stocktons were the rare ones.

[Baller234]

The Stockton slurping has really gotten insane, and I hate to say it because I loved Stockton as a player.

[sdot_thadon]

You see the purpose of the revisionist history in the thread title.....I cant beleive anyone who grew up watching 80s-90s ball could ever come to such a conclusion. Its that terrible.

[Full Court]

Stockton/Malone were one of the best duos in NBA history. They tend to get disparaged these days...almost always by Bronie fluffers who try to discredit Jordan's incredible accomplishments.

And the hilarious thing is that all they have to cling to is this phony narrative that "Bu-bu-bu-but Jordan had weak competition!!" When the fact is that the 2020 bubble ring was against the weakest finals team in the modern era, and possible the entire history of the sport.

[SouBeachTalents]

Stockton/Malone were one of the best duos in NBA history. They tend to get disparaged these days...almost always by Bronie fluffers who try to discredit Jordan's incredible accomplishments.

And the hilarious thing is that all they have to cling to is this phony narrative that "Bu-bu-bu-but Jordan had weak competition!!" When the fact is that the 2020 bubble ring was against the weakest finals team in the modern era, and possible the entire history of the sport.

They played together 18 years and won 0 rings, and you can only blame Jordan for 2 of those. Not impressed.

[Phoenix]

In the 90s? It's not even taken as gospel that he's ahead of Isiah now with the full context of their careers. In the 90s Isiah would have been coming off two titles as the best player, several all-star and all-NBA teams( that were cut off after 88 because of politics because he was at least 2nd team level until 90). Stockton in the 90s didn't really distinguish himself from the likes of Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson or Mark Price then later Gary Payton, Penny( healthy) and Jason Kidd. He was great but his health and consistency over 20 years accounts for a large part of his GOAT ranking, not because he was viewed as being the defacto best PG in his time. There was never a case where there weren't guys flat-out better or considered on the same level at different points. At their respective bests Isiah was quite clearly a better lead player and scorer on a contender on top of being an all-time elite floor general.

[3ba11]

In the 90s? It's not even taken as gospel that he's ahead of Isiah now with the full context of their careers. In the 90s Isiah would have been coming off two titles as the best player, several all-star and all-NBA teams( that were cut off after 88 because of politics because he was at least 2nd team level until 90). Stockton in the 90s didn't really distinguish himself from the likes of Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson or Mark Price then later Gary Payton, Penny( healthy) and Jason Kidd. He was great but his health and consistency over 20 years accounts for a large part of his GOAT ranking, not because he was viewed as being the defacto best PG in his time. There was never a case where there weren't guys flat-out better or considered on the same level at different points. At their respective bests Isiah was quite clearly a better lead player and scorer on a contender on top of being an all-time elite floor general.

1988

Stockton.... 2nd Team All-NBA
Isiaih......... nothing


1989

Stockton.... 2nd Team All-NBA
Isiaih......... nothing


1990

Stockton.... 2nd Team All-NBA
Isiaih......... nothing


1991

Stockton.... 2nd Team All-NBA
Isiaih......... nothing


1992

Stockton.... 2nd Team All-NBA
Isiaih......... nothing


* stockton was also All-Defense every year

^^^ Stockton was considered a phenom for averaging literally 14-15 APG for 5 straight seasons from 88' to 92'... During this period, he averaged 16/14 and 2.9 SPG with 37% on threes and 52% FG overall.

So again, Stockton was considered better than Isiah, which means the duo of Stockton/Malone should be considered like Isiah/Duncan.. Plus they had Hornacek at 3rd option and a defensive core of Ostertag, Russell and Shandon Anderson (plus Stockton and Malone were All-Defense).. It was a stacked team..

Btw, Malone won MVP with 1st team defense for 3 straight years from 97-99', except a 2nd to MJ in 98' for MVP... So Malone had a goat-level peak, if not for the Finals losses to the actual goat.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan lost 3 years in a row to a team whose best player wasn’t even All-NBA? Embarrassing

[Full Court]

That's what I was thinking. Sure, most people have Stockton over Isiah now because of his longevity, but highly unlikely that was the case during the 90's.

Big fan of Stockton, but he has no case for being ranked over Isiah. Stockton is up there with the greatest seconds of all time, but that's a level below the great firsts.