Better at basketball, Jokić or Kobe?

[j3lademaster]

Sengun took a dump on Jokic just the other day

I’ve seen Michael Finley shit on Jordan before. What does that prove?

[brownmamba00]

I’ve seen Michael Finley shit on Jordan before. What does that prove?

Jokic is a lame that rides horses in the summer don't you dare compare him to the black Bruce Wayne.

[John8204]

Well it took a month but I'm glad common sense finally put Kobe over Jokic

[Tavr]

Its funny. We're just supposed to take Jokic's numbers at face value. Even though the guys he's being compared to...played in a league where league-wide DRTG was like 10 points lower. Damn all context and gimme da stats!

[RRR3]

Its funny. We're just supposed to take Jokic's numbers at face value. Even though the guys he's being compared to...played in a league where league-wide DRTG was like 10 points lower. Damn all context and gimme da stats!

Impact stats adjust for that.











Dim

[Tavr]

Impact stats adjust for that.











Dim

Which impact stats take defense into account...across multiple years

Are you ok?

[RRR3]

Which impact stats take defense into account...across multiple years

Are you ok?

They all take defense into account? All the big ones like RAPM, LEBRON, and EPM at least.

[Tavr]

They all take defense into account? All the big ones like RAPM, LEBRON, and EPM at least.

Obviously they take defense into account. I'm talking about across eras, hence Kobe vs Joker. We don't have data that contextualizes Joker's impact with 2000 defensive stats. And the 2000s is arguably the best defensive era of all time.

Bringing up "RAPM" is cool for a 3-5 year sample, and within that time frame. But just using it to compare players from different eras isn't smart. Whoever told you otherwise did you a big disservice lol

[Baller234]

Its funny. We're just supposed to take Jokic's numbers at face value. Even though the guys he's being compared to...played in a league where league-wide DRTG was like 10 points lower. Damn all context and gimme da stats!

Forget the made up stats even, they obsess over a few percentage points.

"My favorite player's RXPMZK is 58%, yours is 52%. Clearly my guy is better..."

[warriorfan]

Op is a turd

[j3lademaster]

Forget the made up stats even, they obsess over a few percentage points.

"My favorite player's RXPMZK is 58%, yours is 52%. Clearly my guy is better..."

We’re all biased, some more than others, so there needs to have some kind of objective measure in a debate. The eye test is only so reliable when people only see what they want to see(like Jokić not being able to take and hit big shots), plus there are so many games played you need data to get the full picture. I mean, Lebron has 40k points and 11k assists not even counting playoffs; how do we account for all of them, or even a majority? At some point we have to pull up the shot charts and shooting percentages, especially if we want a fair discussion. Stats matter, that’s why you want Sam Presti, Brad Steven’s scouting talent for your front office and not Jordan, Isiah and Magic.

[j3lademaster]

Jokic is a lame that rides horses in the summer don't you dare compare him to the black Bruce Wayne.

I didn’t compare them, just pointing out the flaw in that logic. MJ > Jokic, and Sengun > Finley. MJ should have no business ever being outplayed by a Michael Finley tier player… going by your logic ofc.

[Tavr]

Forget the made up stats even, they obsess over a few percentage points.

"My favorite player's RXPMZK is 58%, yours is 52%. Clearly my guy is better..."

True, but let me preface this by saying I'm not anti stats. Numbers definitely matter its just I think people need to use them more responsibly. I mean damn...at least attempt to talk basketball

Regarding who's better between the two? Its fairly close imo. I'd probably take Jokic because of his impact on offense (gets cleaner looks because of his height and is a tremendous passer). I'm not mad at anyone picking Kobe though.

[warriorfan]

I guess the nbs should just delete their entire archive of games and consolidate them into an excel spreadsheet

[Tavr]

I guess the nbs should just delete their entire archive of games and consolidate them into an excel spreadsheet