Averaging a triple double in the finals: will it ever be done and who came close

[Roundball_Rock]

Will anyone ever average a triple double in the finals? These are the guys who came close. There is some subjectivity involved so feel free to add other performances. I automatically eliminated anyone who had a “6” or lower in any category and they needed at least an “8” or “9” in one category (2014 edit: "8" or "9" in one of either assists or rebounds) to make this list so something like 25/7/7 would not make the cut. In theory I will exclude anyone who did not reach the double digits in any category, but I doubt there will be anyone with 9/9/9. If I find a player like that I will mention him at the end of the post separately.

Unfortunately basketball reference's finals' box scores go back only to 1970. Does anyone know if Wilt or Russell came close in the 60's?

I did the list chronologically.

Jason Kidd

21/7/10

Clyde Drexler

21.5/9.5/7

Scottie Pippen

21/9/8

21/8/8

21/9/7

Michael Jordan

31/7/11

Magic Johnson

19/8/12

26/8/13

18/7/14

18/8/14

19/8/13

16/11/8

21.5/11/9

Larry Bird

24/9.7/9.5

15/15/7

John Johnson

12/8/7

Walt Frazier

23/8/8

18/8/10

Some thoughts and notes:

*Magic Johnson
*Extra credit for the players who did this while playing great defenses as well, i.e. Kidd, Pippen, and Jordan.
*Props to Bird for coming closest with 24/9.7/9.5. If you round he did it but this question came up last year with Rondo in the first round and I believe the consensus was rounding does not equal a real triple double.
*Every player on this list is a clear-cut HOFer, with the exception of John Johnson and as you can see his near-triple double was not anywhere near the caliber of what the others did.
*Only four players, Magic, Bird, Pippen, and Frazier appear on this list multiple times.
*If you combine Bird, Pippen, and Frazier they still do not surpass Magic's total!
*The center who came closest was Shaq, but he had "only" 6 assists per game

Just a for these players performing at such a high level in an all-around way at the highest level.

Edit:

Wilt

19/28.5/7

2014 update

LeBron James

12' LeBron 29/10/7
13' LeBron 25/11/7

[lakerspng]

Magic pure talent and skill, add to it his charisma and competitive nature. there will never be another player like him.

[boozehound]

well, bird's one finals rounds up to a triple double.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Michael Jordan

31/7/11

Most impressive one, IMO ...

Especially knowing he was his team's best defender as well.

If this was a triple double stat line ...

[Rekindled]

bird was the closest

[Alhazred]

*Extra credit for the players who did this while playing great defenses as well, i.e. Kidd, Pippen, and Jordan.

Just wanted to throw Frazier's name in there, too. Dude was the top defensive guard of his time while dropping 36 points and 19 assists on Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain in 71.

[Roundball_Rock]

Michael Jordan

31/7/11

Most impressive one, IMO ...

It is either that one or Bird's, but I give MJ the edge based on defense. You made a great point about Jordan being his team's best defender that year (1991) and he was primarily assigned to guard Magic Johnson. His assists meant he also was his team's primary playmaker in that series. We all know about his scoring so there is no need to say anything in that regard. On top of all this Jordan found the time and energy to chip in 7 boards a game as a guard!

Yeah, Bird was the closest. Magic Johnson also came very close in 1980 (21.5/11/9).

Pippen deserves recognition as well. His assists were deflated by the triangle so something like 21/9.5/9.5 certainly would be feasible for him under a normal offensive scheme.

I am surprised Magic never did it. The closest he came was as a rookie. His rebounding fell off after his first two finals, though, for whatever reason.

Does anyone think we will see a player pull this off? Can Lebron do it? I can see him getting double digit assists. The hard part for him would be getting double digit rebounds. If anyone playing today can do it, though, it is Lebron. He is averaging something like 30/8/8 right now so it would not take much of an improvement over the course of a few games to get to double digits in rebounding and assists. With Jamison in town Lebron's assists should rise, although his scoring should decrease a bit.

[gotbacon23]

Unfortunately basketball reference's finals' box scores go back only to 1970. Does anyone know if Wilt or Russell came close in the 60's?

i doubt it. for one, it was harder to get assists back then and for 2 blocks and steals weren't tracked (russell and wilt were probably more likely to get a pts/rebs/blks triple double, i'd imagine).

also keep in , mind that from '59-60 through '69-70, guy rodgers and oscar robertson were the only two players in the whole league to average 10+ apg for even ONE season.

oh and this website has box scores for nba finals from '47 onward, however the box scores pre-1970 only have points, shooting, and fouls for most games. some games have full stats (for instance, russell put up 23 points, 25 rebounds, and 10 assists on 10 for 11 shooting in game 2 of 1965... nasty)

http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/home.htm

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

what team had the most triple doubles in one game? how about double doubles?

[Roundball_Rock]

Sweet find! It has some composite box scores as well, such as for 67'.

Yeah, it was harder to get assists back then. I don't think either did it but I would not be surprised if one came close. I just checked 67' Wilt and he had 18/28.5/7 so Wilt joins the list in the OP.

[Alhazred]

I am surprised Magic never did it. The closest he came was as a rookie. His rebounding fell off after his first two finals, though, for whatever reason.

Magic was actually assigned to play forward a lot his first few years in the league and switched between positions during games. After a few years he grew into being more of a pure point guard. From NBA.com:

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19791980.html

Johnson was the hands-down choice as series MVP. "What position did I play?" Magic responded to reporters afterward. "Well, I played center, a little forward, some guard. I tried to think up a name for it, but the best I could come up with was CFG-Rover."

Hope that helps explain it.

Does anyone think we will see a player pull this off? Can Lebron do it?

Certainly, under the right circumstances. I can definitely see him going 30/8/8 at the very least.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Pippen deserves recognition as well. His assists were deflated by the triangle so something like 21/9.5/9.5 certainly would be feasible for him under a normal offensive scheme.

His assists were NOT deflated by the triangle, they were aided by it (unlike other, better passer/playmakers like Jordan/Kobe). Most of Pippen's assists were system assists, and he wouldn't get those in a freelance system because he lacked high-level playmaking ability (relatively speaking). He also benefitted from having a 32 ppg/51% FG scorer to pass it to for guaranteed buckets. This is why his assists dropped from 6.2/7.0/6.3 in '91-'93 to 5.6 in 1994. If you really think Pippen would come close to 21/9.5/9.5 in a freewheeling system, you're crazy.

[Alhazred]

His assists were NOT deflated by the triangle, they were aided by it (unlike other, better passer/playmakers like Jordan/Kobe). Most of Pippen's assists were system assists, and he wouldn't get those in a freelance system because he lacked high-level playmaking ability (relatively speaking). He also benefitted from having a 32 ppg/51% FG scorer to pass it to for guaranteed buckets. This is why his assists dropped from 6.2/7.0/6.3 in '91-'93 to 5.6 in 1994. If you really think Pippen would come close to 21/9.5/9.5 in a freewheeling system, you're crazy.

Peak Scottie(1991-96) could do it, I think. With the right team and system, I mean, like maybe the 90s Sonics. Also, he did get his fair share of assists in Houston and Portland.

[Roundball_Rock]

If you really think Pippen would come close to 21/9.5/9.5 in a freewheeling system, you're crazy.

at the agenda. In every thread where Pippen is even mentioned. I was talking about those numbers over the course of one series, not in a season. He averaged 8 assists in the NBA finals twice. Even you once acknowledged he could muster an extra 1.5 assists outside the triangle. The last time I checked, 8+1.5=9.5.

Most of Pippen's assists were system assists,

Another Jordan fan who did not watch Pippen in Portland, where he had his best season in terms of assists at 70 years old, although his raw numbers were down due to less minutes and pace. In percentage of a team's assists he accounted for he had his best season there; in terms of assists per 36 minutes he tied what he did at age 26. Adjusting for pace (89.3 versus 94.4), minutes his best season regarding assists came in 2002, not 1992.

. This is why his assists dropped from 6.2/7.0/6.3 in '91-'93 to 5.6 in 1994.

Why didn't you mention pace or what happened to his assists when Mikey returned? 5.9, 5.7, and 5.8 from 96'-98'. In other words, there was no significant difference in his assists when Jordan came back compared to 94'.

All this and Jordan's record remains what it is...

[ShaqAttack3234]

Nice thread and it'll probably be done sooner or later. Kidd did it in the ECF, I believe and looking at how many times Magic came close, how close Jordan came while scoring 30+ and defending Magic and looking at how close Scottie came three times as well as Bird who missed it by half arebound or assist ro less. Lebron is the most likely candidate. The points and assists can easily reach double figures for Lebron and his rebounds are typically in the 7-8 game range, but it's not hard to see him putting together a series with 10+, particularly playing 45 or so minutes.