Scottie Pippen in the playoffs from 1991-93

[Roundball_Rock]

"Certain people" here who mysteriously all have one thing in common like to cherry pick Pippen's 200+ playoff game record (especially the parts where he had injured ankles, feet, backs, legs--except they "forget" to tell you these details) to paint him as a poor playoff performer. (the same thing can be done with anyone--even some uber-clutch people like Reggie Miller and "some others") Like any big lie, it has been repeated so often some people who never even watched Pippen play have began to believe it.

On its face this should ring alarm bells. He went to the NBA finals 6 times and played very well 5 times. He had one dud, when he had back, ankle, and foot injuries. And? There are several other legends who had bad finals, even when healthy. Does that mean they are chokers? A .833 batting average is excellent in the NBA finals. Pippen is one of the few players ever to come close to averaging a triple double in the NBA finals--and he did it three times, which is more than anyone not named Magic. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...24#post4005524

I was going to make one post on some of his best playoff moments but after starting it quickly became clear that such a list would be so long it would not fit in one thread. He had too many great playoff moments that even a partial list winds up being lengthy. This is what happens when you make the playoffs 16 straight years and never have a losing season despite having numerous coaches, different teammates, different offensive schmes, and so on. The one constant was Pippen winning 50+ or around that every year until his last season, in which he played only 23 games and was and 18 minutes a game.

Here is his playoff record:

6-0 in the NBA finals series, 24-11 in games
6-3 in conference finals, 32-15 in games
144 playoff wins, second behind Kareem on the all-time playoff win list. To put 144 playoff wins in context, Kareem has 154, Magic 127 and Jordan 125.

A big problem in assessing Pippen is like Bill Russell, another legend who managed to win wherever he went, a lot of the things he did to help his team do not easily stick out on a statsheet. This leads to hilarities like two people in one thread going to basketballreference.com and seeing “10/4/4” and bashing him for it even though he dominated that NBA finals game defensively. In a thread a while ago four posters, all mysteriously having a certain thing in common, went to basketballreference and completely ignored his defensive dominance in that finals when they were for some mysterious reason downplaying his performance in that finals prior to his injury.

Here is historian Bill Simmons (whether you like him or not the fact is he is a bona fide basketball historian, not just a columnist) on Pippen's impact in the shadows of games. I redacted the parts of the article referring to Player X, since experience has shown it is best to minimize mentions of him in Pippen threads.

If the answer is "yes" for No. 1, you probably wonder why Scottie's recent retirement wasn't a bigger story. It's not every day one of the 20 greatest players ever hangs it up, right? .... Does anyone even consider the concept of a point forward? Did any other small forward affect a game in more ways? Was there a more influential defensive player in the past 30 years?

During the 1992 Olympics, Chuck Daly called Scottie his second-best player, describing him as the ultimate "fill-in-the-blanks guy." That's right. Like The Wolf in "Pulp Fiction," Scottie specialized in cleaning up everyone else's mess. When Magic was running amok in the 1991 Finals, Scottie shut him down. When the Knicks were shoving the Bulls around in the 1994 playoffs, Scottie dunked on Ewing, then stood over him defiantly. During the Charles Smith game the year before, Pippen and Horace Grant were the ones stuffing Smith again and again. And when the 1998 Pacers tried to snuff out the ... era, ..... and Pippen crashed the boards and willed themselves time and again to the foul line in Game 7, two smaller guys dominating the paint against a bigger team. They just wanted it more.

...Even better, Tubbs could carry his own episode every now and then, which was precisely what happened in 1994.... Scottie (22.0 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 5.6 apg, 49% FG) came within a fishy foul on Hubert Davis from taking Chicago to the Finals. How did he not win the MVP award? Pippen detractors conveniently forget that season, just like they ignore the older Scottie leading Portland to within one self-destructive quarter of the 2000 Finals, or gutting through the 1998 playoffs with two herniated disks, in the process jeopardizing his crack at free agency. It's easy to dismiss him as ... 's sidekick. Or to point to the migraine in 1990's Game 7 against the Pistons. Hey, if all else fails, just bring up the quitter thing.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/041101

If you read Simmons' book you know Pippen came up several times. "Best defensive forward ever", the Pippen all-time ranking portion (he is right behind KG and Isiah Thomas and right ahead of John Stockton in case you want to find that part of the book), in the all-time team section, best teams section, etc.. Funny how Simmons, who criticized several other players for choking, never said the same thing about Pippen.

In fact who has? Show me a quote from a legitimate authority, not a few internet message board posters who all "happen" to fans of the same guy, that says this. If Pippen was a poor playoff performer over the course of 16 years in the playoffs evidently this is news to every knowledgeable person. I have heard people like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird call Pippen a superstar, Doug Collins call him and ___ the best perimeter defenders ever, Chuck Daly call him the second-best player on the Dream Team, a Pulitzer Prize winning author who wrote a biography on _____ call him "arguably the second-best player in the league" in his prime, Sports Illustrated call him the second-best player in the NBA and so on. Rod Thorn: "Pippen provided them big shots." Tex Winter and Steve Kerr: Pippen made his teammates better. Phil Jackson: Pippen was a great leader, dominant defender, should have been MVP in 94'. Ron Harper: Pippen's all-around game greatly helped his team win and that was lost in the shuffle because all people talked about was scoring. And on and on. Where are the "Scottie Pippen was a choker" and "Scottie Pippen consistently underperformed in the playoffs" quotes? I am talking about over the course of his career. 16 years. 200+ playoff games. Of course you likely can find a "He sucked in Game X" quote. You can do that with anyone. Can you pull a Chris Webber or Karl Malone and find anyone with legitimacy saying the same thing about such a trend over his entire record? It is amazing to me how many people have bought this myth without ever contemplating the fact that no credible source ever adheres to this view. As I mentioned earlier, the only people who say this are internet posters who all have one thing in common and it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots as to what their agenda is.

Here are his raw numbers in the playoffs, though.

Pippen consistently improved in the playoffs, especially his rebounding.

1988: +2 ppg, +1 rpg,
1989: -1 ppg, +2 rpg
1990: +2 ppg, =rpg
1991: +4 ppg, +2 rpg
1992: -1 ppg, +1 rpg
1993: +1 ppg, -1 rpg
1994: +1 ppg, -1 rpg
1995: -2 ppg, +2 rpg (compared to his numbers after MJ returned)
1996: -2 ppg, +3 rpg
1997: =ppg, =rpg (excluding Game 5 of the ECF where he got hurt, played 7 minutes)
1998: -2 ppg, +2 rpg
1999: +3 ppg, +5 rpg
2000: +2 ppg, +1 rpg (Pippen led the 00' Blazers in rebounding, assists, minutes, steals and scored just 3 ppg less than Wallace)
2001: +3 ppg, +1 rpg
2002: +5 ppg, +4 rpg
2003: -5 ppg, -1 rpg

His assists were consistent so I did not include that. 10 times he increased his scoring, and 11 times his rebounding. Three times when his scoring declined he was injured and the other was in his second season. In 1992 it declined but only from 21 ppg to 20 ppg. His rebounding declined thrice, and one instance was in 2003 when he was injured and toast as a player and barely played in that series. Does this look like the record of a “usually terrible playoff performer” or “a choker”? Most players see their stats decline or remain even in the playoffs because of the tougher competition they face. Pippen is one of those who raised his stats. How could this be?

[Roundball_Rock]

On to some great moments:

1991

Against the Knicks: 21/11/5/4/3 in the closeout game.
Against the Sixers: 28/8/6 in the closeout game.
Against the Pistons: Having memories of the “migraine game” fresh in his mind, Pippen had a great all-around performance in his first crack at the Pistons since that game. 18 points, 5 boards, only 2 assists but 6 steals and 5 blocks! He had 23/6/10 in the closeout game.

Against the Lakers (21/9/7 for the series):

*Game 2 of the 1991 NBA finals: After losing Game 1 the upstart Bulls suddenly stared the prospect of facing an 0-2 deficit against Magic Johnson's Lakers when Michael Jordan got into early foul trouble. Phil Jackson put Pippen on Johnson for that game and Pippen's long arms, size harassed Magic into having his worst game of the finals. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...stats_playoffs The Bulls won the game.

”Your defense on Magic Johnson changed the fortunes of the series.”-Phil Jackson

*Game 5 of the 1991 NBA finals: 32/13/7/5, including something like 26 or 28 second half points to finish off the Lakers.

1992

Against Miami: 31/8/5 with 2 blocks to closeout Miami.
Against New York in the ECSF: Pippen had an up and down series but when all the chips were on the line he responded with a masterful triple double in Game 7. 17/11/11 on 64% with three steals thrown in for good measure.

Against Cleveland in the ECF:

He picked up where he left in New York. 29/12/9 with 3 blocks and a steal as the Bulls beat the Cavs in Game 1.

In the closeout Game 6 Pippen had 29/12/5/4/4. For the series he averaged 18/11/6/ with 2 steals and a 1.5 blocks per game.

NBA finals versus Portland (21/8/8):

Pippen welcomed the Blazers with 24/9/10 in Game 1. He had several other near-triple doubles. 16/8/10 in Game 2, 18/8/7, and 24/11/9 in Game 5 to help the Bulls take a 3-2 lead in Portland.

His finest moment, and perhaps the finest moment of his career, came in Game 6, though. Entering the fourth quarter of Game 6 the Bulls found themselves in a massive 15 point hole. Pippen and four bench players were the unit which opened the quarter. Pippen led them to a quick 14-2 run to bring the Bulls back into the game and prevent a Game 7.

Facing a 15-point deficit going into the fourth quarter of Game Six of the 1992 NBA Finals versus the Portland Trail Blazers, Scottie Pippen led the Bulls’ reserves on a 14-2 run before Michael Jordan and the remaining starters rejoined him on the floor to seal the team’s second NBA Championship.
Chicago’s 33-14 domination in the final frame was just enough for the Bulls to secure the 97-93 victory. The star of the miraculous rally, Pippen, finished the game with 26 points (9-of-17 shooting, 6-of-9 from the line), five rebounds and four boards.

Blazers big man Jerome Kersey (24 points, nine rebounds) led Portland to a six-point lead at the intermission, 50-44. Rather than narrowing the gap, the Bulls found themselves down 79-64 entering the fourth quarter. Game Seven appeared imminent to everyone in the Chicago Stadium, until Pippen and the Bulls’ bench began the furious rally.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/history/pippen10_920614.html

You can watch the rally at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9ywi...eature=related .

1993

ECF vs. the Knicks:

The Bulls lost the first two games and the series was essentially on the line in Game 3. Pippen came through with 29 points on 83% shooting.

In Game 5 Pip had 28 points and 11 rebounds. That game, though, is most remembered for the legendary defensive stops on Charles Smith on the Knicks' final possession that sealed victory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnoZPsJCs64 Had Smith scored the Knicks, who trailed 95-94, would have had a 3-2 series lead with Game 7 slated for New York.
Here is the call from Marv Albert: “Smith stripped...Smith stopped...Smith stopped again by Pippen! What a play by Scottie Pippen!...The Chicago Bulls with a couple of spectacular plays, Scottie Pippen stopping Charles Smith...”

Game 6 was another great performance. Pippen had 24/6/7 (16 of those points were second half points) and was clutch down the stretch, when he needed to step up because the rest of the team was struggling (one guy was 0 for 7 in the 4th quarter). Scroll to 5:00 to see Pippen sink the nail in the Knicks' coffin with a clutch three pointer (this was back when Pippen was not a good three point shooter). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llgnf6gY_gM#t=4m56s Here is what Marv Albert and the Czar had to say:

Albert: “...Again Scottie Pippen has hit the big shot...”
Czar: “...Talk about driving a stake in the guy's heart...Time after time in this series Scottie Pippen has proving that he can come up big when they need him...”
Albert: “Remember back in Game 4 it was Pippen who...(delivered a) crushing blow to the Knicks (with a three point play with 2 minutes left)

Ahmad Rashad: “You played big the whole series...”

Some other commentator from a broadcast from wherever the guy who made the video is from said “The difference in this one was Scottie Pippen...He stepped up and hit the (big) shots when they needed them...He ended up with the ball even on plays designed for Michael and still comes through...Following the game Phil Jackson talked about Scottie stepping up when Michael was down...”

Jackson: “Scottie Pippen stepped up big...”

Listen to Pip's interview at the end. Instead of taking the credit he was praising MJ (for doing little things to help his team when he shot was off—you know, just like Scottie did time and again)!

What was Sports Illustrated's take on the series? Pippen was the MVP of the series. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...8680/index.htm

June 14, 1993
Eye Of The Storm
A versatile star led the Bulls to a 4-2 elimination of the Knicks, and he wasn't named Jordan

Throughout the entertaining Eastern scrum, which ended last Friday night in Chicago with a 96-88 Bull victory in Game 6, Pippen and Michael Jordan were like pop-ups in an arcade game: Slam one down with a rubber hammer and the other springs up.
It was not surprising that Jordan was able to pick up Pippen, of course; such acts are part of Superman's daily agenda. But it was intriguing to see Pippen step into the temporary vacuums left by the sometimes physically exhausted and mentally overburdened Jordan (page 13). For the first time in Chicago's three successive marches into the NBA Finals, in fact, a Bull other than Jordan would have deserved to be named MVP in a playoff series, were such an honor awarded for a series other than the Finals.
The spotlight will inevitably be trained on Jordan and his superstar counterpart, Charles Barkley of the Phoenix Suns, in the 1993 NBA Finals, which began in Phoenix on Wednesday. But if Jordan's shaky shooting continues—a career 52% shooter, he made only 40% of his shots against the Knicks—Pippen's number will be called, again and again.
During the decisive Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals, for example, it was not Jordan who made the big second-half shots but Pippen, he of the supposedly crumbling-cookie composure. When the Knicks, having almost eliminated a seven-point deficit, threatened to steal the game late in the fourth period, two Pippen jumpers with the shot clock almost at zero bailed out the Bulls. The first came from the deep right corner just after Pippen had flashed a smirk at Knick superfan Spike Lee, sitting at courtside. The second, a three-pointer from beyond the top of the key, was followed by Pippen's raising his index finger and glancing at Starks with another Were you there? expression on his face. Boy, the Knicks must've felt like killing Pippen.

1993 NBA finals (21/9/8 for the series)

Game 1: 27/9/5 to open the series
Game 2: A triple double! 15/12/12 with 2 blocks and 2 steals.
Game 3: 26/10/9 with 3 blocks.
Game 6: A solid 23/12/5/4, along with a hockey assist on the game winning play to finish the series.

All in all, not bad for a "usually terrible playoff performer."

[97 bulls]

great posts rock. i must say i didnt even know he was this good. i guess as a youngster we were so infatuated with watching mj and now looking back thats so unfortunate.

i think your starting to open a few others eyes too. ive seen a few guys recently throw him in the 20-22 range. that can be attributed to you and fatal.

[juju151111]

Good post. Top 25 and Goat defender.

[Kellogs4toniee]

I have him at 22 on my list.

His importance to the Bulls was comparable to most number one options on any other teams.

[Alhazred]

1993

ECF vs. the Knicks:

The Bulls lost the first two games and the series was essentially on the line in Game 3. Pippen came through with 29 points on 83% shooting.

In Game 5 Pip had 28 points and 11 rebounds. That game, though, is most remembered for the legendary defensive stops on Charles Smith on the Knicks' final possession that sealed victory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnoZPsJCs64 Had Smith scored the Knicks, who trailed 95-94, would have had a 3-2 series lead with Game 7 slated for New York.
Here is the call from Marv Albert: “Smith stripped...Smith stopped...Smith stopped again by Pippen! What a play by Scottie Pippen!...The Chicago Bulls with a couple of spectacular plays, Scottie Pippen stopping Charles Smith...”

Game 6 was another great performance. Pippen had 24/6/7 (16 of those points were second half points) and was clutch down the stretch, when he needed to step up because the rest of the team was struggling (one guy was 0 for 7 in the 4th quarter). Scroll to 5:00 to see Pippen sink the nail in the Knicks' coffin with a clutch three pointer (this was back when Pippen was not a good three point shooter). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llgnf6gY_gM#t=4m56s Here is what Marv Albert and the Czar had to say:


Some other commentator from a broadcast from wherever the guy who made the video is from said “The difference in this one was Scottie Pippen...He stepped up and hit the (big) shots when they needed them...He ended up with the ball even on plays designed for Michael and still comes through...Following the game Phil Jackson talked about Scottie stepping up when Michael was down...”

Jackson: “Scottie Pippen stepped up big...”

Listen to Pip's interview at the end. Instead of taking the credit he was praising MJ (for doing little things to help his team when he shot was off—you know, just like Scottie did time and again)!

I think you're selling Michael's performance that series a little short. In game 3, he went 22/8/11 with two blocks and steals. Game 5, he had a 29/10/14 along with two steals and a block. Let's also not forget the 54 point performance in game 4. Other than that, thanks for highlighting Scottie's best playoff moments, it was fun reminiscing.

EDIT: Wasn't 1993 also the year Michael had the sprained wrist and had hurt his ankle earlier in the first round against Atlanta?

[Abraham Lincoln]

In Game 5 Pip had 28 points and 11 rebounds. That game, though, is most remembered for the legendary defensive stops on Charles Smith on the Knicks' final possession that sealed victory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnoZPsJCs64 Had Smith scored the Knicks, who trailed 95-94, would have had a 3-2 series lead with Game 7 slated for New York.
Here is the call from Marv Albert: “Smith stripped...Smith stopped...Smith stopped again by Pippen! What a play by Scottie Pippen!...The Chicago Bulls with a couple of spectacular plays, Scottie Pippen stopping Charles Smith...”

Pippen actually got him once. As did Jordan, Grant, & the bottom of the backboard. NY easily could have won Game 5 if not for the BS blocking foul on Rivers.

[Abraham Lincoln]

The reason he is usually called a choker is due to the term clutch these days being strictly attributed to a slew of jump shots in the final minutes of a game. Nobody cares about the defensive end of the basketball or even the elimination games nearly as much as a so called closer hitting a GW.

[Alhazred]

A big problem in assessing Pippen is like Bill Russell, another legend who managed to win wherever he went, a lot of the things he did to help his team do not easily stick out on a statsheet. This leads to hilarities like two people in one thread going to basketballreference.com and seeing “10/4/4” and bashing him for it even though he dominated that NBA finals game defensively.

I actually watched that game live. The Bulls had the game won by the half and rested their starters, as did Utah. Then it turned into an epic 96-54 blowout.

[Roundball_Rock]

Thanks, 97 and juju.

His importance to the Bulls was comparable to most number one options on any other teams.

Interesting point. It isn't just his scoring role (give them 19-22 points per game) but he also had to rebound (7-9 boards), defend (in a dominant fashion, not a merely contain your other guy and help now and then fashion), and run the offense. How many other "second options" had this much responsibility?

I think you're selling Michael's performance that series a little short.

Come on. Do we need to turn every Pippen thread into a Jordan thread? I deliberately tried to minimize mentions of Jordan in the OP to keep the thread on track. Of course Jordan was great, even when he shot poorly because he would do other things to help his team (just like Pippen, like having 11 boards, 11 assists on a bad back yet all we hear about is his shooting). I gave him props for that in the OP and have done so in other threads. The only reason Jordan was relevant is that when he needed some help Pippen stepped up. According to some Pippen was incapable of doing this.

EDIT: Wasn't 1993 also the year Michael had the sprained wrist and had hurt his ankle earlier in the first round against Atlanta?

Yes. Why does this matter? Jordan himself had to step up when Pippen got hurt badly in the 98' finals. This stuff happens. The thing is if Pippen was a choker he would have crumbled, not risen to the occasion like he did.

thanks for highlighting Scottie's best playoff moments, it was fun reminiscing.

Best moments from 1991-93. There is more for other years but it just wouldn't fit in one thread.

Pippen actually got him once. As did Jordan, Grant, & the bottom of the backboard. NY easily could have won Game 5 if not for the BS blocking foul on Rivers.

Yes, but that was the call. The call is more dramatic than what actually happened.

The reason he is usually called a choker is due to the term clutch these days being strictly attributed to a slew of jump shots in the final minutes of a game. Nobody cares about the defensive end of the basketball or even the elimination games nearly as much as a so called closer hitting a GW.

I agree and it is unfair in his case since he rarely took game winners because he had Jordan. In effect, his is criticized for not making shots he never took! This is why you never hear of a long list of game winners he missed. There is no such list because he took so few over the course of such a lengthy period. The only big one that comes to mind is Game 1 of the 98' finals.

I actually watched that game live. The Bulls had the game won by the half and rested their starters, as did Utah. Then it turned into an epic 96-54 blowout.

To an extent. Pippen played 35 minutes, Jordan 32. The game was close after the first quarter but it blew up after that. The Bulls were up about 20 at halftime and then pulled their starters in the third. Why does any of this matter? The point is Pippen had a dominant game but because he scored only 10 points people actually were citing that game as an example of Pippen not playing well in a big game! It would be like looking up a Bill Russell game where he scored 10 points and had 5 assists and saying he did nothing. (and no, Pippen is not Russell but he is similar in the sense that he did a lot of things that did not easily show up in the box score--especially defense. There is no stat for disrupting the pinpoint timing if the #1 offense)

[Alhazred]

To an extent. Pippen played 35 minutes, Jordan 32. The game was close after the first quarter but it blew up after that. The Bulls were up about 20 at halftime and then pulled their starters in the third. Why does any of this matter? The point is Pippen had a dominant game but because he scored only 10 points people actually were citing that game as an example of Pippen not playing well in a big game! It would be like looking up a Bill Russell game where he scored 10 points and had 5 assists and saying he did nothing. (and no, Pippen is not Russell but he is similar in the sense that he did a lot of things that did not easily show up in the box score--especially defense. There is no stat for disrupting the pinpoint timing if the #1 offense)

Sorry, I didn't say that to discredit Pippen. I was agreeing with you, his numbers didn't tell the whole story. He along with Harper, Kukoc and Michael dominated Utah that game.

I only brought up Michael's injuries because you mentioned how other ISH members unfairly bash Scottie for performing poorly when injured. Just saying.

[magnax1]

I want to see how many threads Roundball has made about Pippen. It has to be at least 3/4 of his threads.

[Roundball_Rock]

I only brought up Michael's injuries because you mentioned how other ISH members unfairly bash Scottie for performing poorly when injured. Just saying.

Was I bashing Jordan? Was I cherry picking those games to paint him as a choker? In the GOAT criteria thread I gave him a perfect score on clutchness. Ask juju since he was in that thread.

He along with Harper, Kukoc and Michael dominated Utah that game.

The agenda. Every thread. I will go into more detail about that game in the 1994-1998 thread. All I will say is the articles and comments from everyone involved (both coaches, players), journalists who watched the game in several major newspapers, commentators like Doug Collins all mentioned one player dominating defensively. at acting as if there was not a legendary performance in that game. Of course team defense mattered--just as it does whenever someone dominates defensively (of course, the team matters on offense as well unless someone is grabbing every board, taking it down the court and scoring all by himself all game) but there was no question who was primarily responsible for the annihilation of the Utah offense. Now keep the agenda for another thread. I will not respond to any of the anti-Pippen agenda people in this thread after this post. The purpose of this thread is to correct a nefarious myth. It is to build up, not tear down a player. Take a page from the two Jordan fans (juju, kellogs) above you in this thread who kept with the spirit of the thread. I won't even bother reading what magnax said but he says the same things in every Pippen thread. I am sure the rest of the cavalry will be arriving soon as well.

Claiming Kukoc dominated a game defensively to diminish Pippen. Just wow.

[Alhazred]

Was I bashing Jordan? Was I cherry picking those games to paint him as a choker?

Sorry, it just seemed odd that you'd mention Jordan's shooting woes throughout the series but not mention a 54 point performance or a triple double. If that wasn't your intention, then I apologize.

The agenda. Every thread. I will go into more detail about that game in the 1994-1998 thread. All I will say is the articles and comments from everyone involved (both coaches, players), journalists who watched the game in several major newspapers, commentators like Doug Collins all mentioned one player dominating defensively. at acting as if there was not a legendary performance in that game. Of course team defense mattered--just as it did when Russell dominated but there was no question who was primarily responsible for the annihilation of the Utah offense. Now keep the trolling for another thread. I will not respond to any of the anti-Pippen agenda people in this thread. The purpose of this thread is to correct a nefarious myth. It is to build up, not tear down a player.

I just said the Bulls were great that game, not that Scotttie wasn't the Bull's most dominant defender. Also, I wasn't referring to defense specifically. Jordan put up 24 points in 32 minutes, Harper had an 8/10/7 and Kukoc put up 16/6/4/4. I only mentioned that I saw it because I agreed that Pippen's performance in game three is unfairly judged due to some people only looking at the base stats. Scottie's defense was one of the reasons for that blowout, probably the biggest one.

Also, had Scottie played 40+ minutes, I'm sure his numbers would have been good enough for people not to think he played poorly that game(For those who only checked the stats). He would have had at least 15/6/6, and that's if he coasted.

Claiming Kukoc dominated a game defensively to diminish Pippen. Just wow.

I said he had a good game, not that he dominated defensively. 16/6/4/4 is very good for a sixth man, no?

Just to be absolutely clear, I am not saying Harper's, Jordan's and Kukoc's defense was as good as Scottie's that game, just that they played well.

EDIT: Also, I have to admit it was funny that you thought I was saying Kukoc's defense was anywhere as good as Scottie's.

Toni was mediocre defensively, whereas Scottie was the GOAT defensive and all-around sf in the 90s.

[Roundball_Rock]

Sorry, it just seemed odd that you'd mention Jordan's shooting woes throughout the series but not mention a 54 point performance or a triple double.

What relevance does any of that have? I know some want to make every Pippen thread a Jordan thread but this is a thread about Pippen having great playoff games. In that series a key part of the story is Pippen stepping up when Jordan was down at times (something some claim was never possible). Did you see me go out of my way to mention Jordan shot 17% in Game 3? No, because it wasn't relevant but if my intent was to bash Jordan I would have mentioned it. Did you see me say Jordan sucked every game? All I--and commentators and Sports Illustrated--said is when the Bulls needed Pippen to step up in the clutch he did. It is hard to talk about this while completely ignoring Jordan. If Jordan did not struggle SOME of the time there would be no occasion for Pippen to step up. What am I supposed to say? "Pippen stepped up when Player X was struggling"?

Relax. Jordan had maybe only 2-3 "bad", by his standards, series in his entire career!

Jordan put up 24 points in 32 minutes, Harper had an 8/10/7 and Kukoc put up 16/6/4/4.

None of that is relevant to defense. I am sure people scored a lot in games which Russell dominated defensively as well. So if someone talks about Russell dominating defensively does that mean we have to mention what Sam Jones or Havelick scored as well?

Also, had Scottie played 40+ minutes, I'm sure his numbers would have been good enough for people not to think he played poorly that game(For those who only checked the stats). He would have had at least 15/6/6, and that's if he coasted.

15/6/6 on paper is hardly a superstar performance. Besides, he had 0 points in the second half. I don't think anyone was really trying by that point. According to some you have to score 30 points or you suck. It wasn't just that game. They gave him credit only for a 28 point Game 4. The story of the series was defense when the Bulls went up 3-1 before he got hurt and he was easily the primary reason for that. Yet all a few posters talked about was his scoring and comparing 20 ppg to 30 ppg. There were even some who claimed that another player, with, um, much less responsibilities on defense had basically as much impact defensively on that series as Pippen. They did not even acknowledge Pippen's defensive dominance, even when a mountain of contemporary primary source evidence was presented to them. It wouldn't have mattered if he scored 4 points (Game 1 98' ECF), 10 points, or 20 points to them. 30+ or bust, baby!