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Old 05-22-2011, 05:43 PM   #31
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by Burgz
no i chose to focus on his conditioning because that is what the thread is about

Then why say "there could be worse things than conditioning to worry about" if you've deemed anything other than conditioning unacceptable for discussion?

and the fact that you left out that he had one of the best performances from any player this year in just his seventh game in his freshman year proves you are just a hater


No, it proves that he had a great game. Players do that all the time. Shawn Bradley had a 29 pt/22 reb/9 block game in his rookie season. So anyone not loving Shawn Bradley is a hater?

I haven't made a single point about the kid that isn't a fact. Don't love or hate him. But as a potential employer...or somebody discussing him on a basketball forum, for chrissakes...there are some red flags that you don't have to be a 'hater' (the universal term for "I can't argue with you rationally, so I'll cal you this") to at l;east consider.
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:44 PM   #32
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by JMT
No, it proves that he had a great game. Players do that all the time. Shawn Bradley had a 29 pt/22 reb/9 block game in his rookie season. So anyone not loving Shawn Bradley is a hater?

I haven't made a single point about the kid that isn't a fact. Don't love or hate him. But as a potential employer...or somebody discussing him on a basketball forum, for chrissakes...there are some red flags that you don't have to be a 'hater' (the universal term for "I can't argue with you rationally, so I'll cal you this") to at l;east consider.
So what team are u a fan of? Raps, Clipps or' Wolves
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by kaiiu
So what team are u a fan of? Raps, Clipps or' Wolves

None of the above.

But thanks for asking.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:21 PM   #34
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by JMT
No, it proves that he had a great game. Players do that all the time. Shawn Bradley had a 29 pt/22 reb/9 block game in his rookie season. So anyone not loving Shawn Bradley is a hater?

I haven't made a single point about the kid that isn't a fact. Don't love or hate him. But as a potential employer...or somebody discussing him on a basketball forum, for chrissakes...there are some red flags that you don't have to be a 'hater' (the universal term for "I can't argue with you rationally, so I'll cal you this") to at l;east consider.

no he didn't, that was his sophmore season

i never said it wasn't a "red flag" just not as serious as you make it out to be

and you don't like that I used the word hater?

well i don't care because right now that's what you're doing and if that's the way YOU feel about the word I cannot control that

if you have more to say, say it. this is, like you said, a basketball forum.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:25 PM   #35
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by Burgz
no he didn't, that was his sophmore season

i never said it wasn't a "red flag" just not as serious as you make it out to be

and you don't like that I used the word hater?

well i don't care because right now that's what you're doing and if that's the way YOU feel about the word I cannot control that

if you have more to say, say it. this is, like you said, a basketball forum.

No need. I've made the rational points. You've used little cartoons and 'hater'. That appears to be the extent of your basketball insights.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by JMT
And he didn't play "more than well" when he came back. He was slow and tentative. The only game where he looked anything like a draft pick...not a top pick, just a selection....was their tourney game vs an overwhelmed opponent (first game he played).

His other 6 games were against Cal Poly Pomona, St Augustines, Colgate, etc. None of the games he played in was close (within 5 pts).
Right, because he didn't put up 28 points in 31 minutes on 9-15 against Arizona in the Sweet 16. GTFO.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:53 PM   #37
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by Arti
Right, because he didn't put up 28 points in 31 minutes on 9-15 against Arizona in the Sweet 16. GTFO.

In a 16 point blowout that wasn't that close.

Vs Mo Mo Jones who worked him for 16 pts, 6 assists and 0 TO in 28 minutes...while Irving had 3 assists/1 TO.

The same Mo Mo Jones who averaged 2.4 assists/1.9 TO/9.7 ppg on the season, and anchored what many think was the worst big time D1 backcourt left after the first round.

The same Mo Mo Jones who has already transferred out because he won't beat out their incoming freshmen.

It's not all about how well a guy shoots the shots a defense will give you when they're kicking your ass.
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Old 05-22-2011, 06:58 PM   #38
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT
No, it proves that he had a great game. Players do that all the time. Shawn Bradley had a 29 pt/22 reb/9 block game in his rookie season. So anyone not loving Shawn Bradley is a hater?

I haven't made a single point about the kid that isn't a fact. Don't love or hate him. But as a potential employer...or somebody discussing him on a basketball forum, for chrissakes...there are some red flags that you don't have to be a 'hater' (the universal term for "I can't argue with you rationally, so I'll cal you this") to at l;east consider.
For every red flag, there are multiple good signs. For instance, people that tend to think Irving will not live up to his billing are pointing out his body fat percentage taken at the combine. But, the fact is, you can go over any player's measurables and find something that can be deemed a 'red flag.'

While his body fat percentage is high, all other things measured of Irving at the combine were major positive signs... Like the fact that he will be listed at 6-foot-3+ and 190, which is great size for a PG... Or the fact that he has a longer reach than virtually any other PG prospects that has come through the draft in recent years.

He was looked at, coming into the combine, as a great intangibles guy that probably wouldn't measure up with the tape measurer or the scale... Turns out, he is a physical presence along with being a great shooter, solid slasher, good playmaker and solid collegiate defender.

You can go through and point out the negatives for virtually any NBA prospect in virtually any draft. This kid has some stellar attributes, though... Which is what I'm focusing on.

He is the clear-cut No. 1 pick and I thought so back when I thought he MIGHT measure in at 6-foot tall without shoes. Now, I'm totally on-board... Guy is taller and bigger than Brandon Knight with a far more refined game.
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:11 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
For every red flag, there are multiple good signs. For instance, people that tend to think Irving will not live up to his billing are pointing out his body fat percentage taken at the combine. But, the fact is, you can go over any player's measurables and find something that can be deemed a 'red flag.'

While his body fat percentage is high, all other things measured of Irving at the combine were major positive signs... Like the fact that he will be listed at 6-foot-3+ and 190, which is great size for a PG... Or the fact that he has a longer reach than virtually any other PG prospects that has come through the draft in recent years.

He was looked at, coming into the combine, as a great intangibles guy that probably wouldn't measure up with the tape measurer or the scale... Turns out, he is a physical presence along with being a great shooter, solid slasher, good playmaker and solid collegiate defender.

You can go through and point out the negatives for virtually any NBA prospect in virtually any draft. This kid has some stellar attributes, though... Which is what I'm focusing on.

He is the clear-cut No. 1 pick and I thought so back when I thought he MIGHT measure in at 6-foot tall without shoes. Now, I'm totally on-board... Guy is taller and bigger than Brandon Knight with a far more refined game.

Based on 11 games.

Look, I don't hate the kid. He measured well at the combine, which is great since he did nothing else. Not that he had much to gain by doing agility drills, but as a GM, I'd like to see that my #1 franchise guy has been doing his due diligence leading yup to the biggest athletic challenge of his life.

I see:

Extremely limited college experience, half against lousy competition

Toe injury that kept him out of 3/4 of his only season

Two months since cleared to play, yet doesn't appear to be in great shape and reluctant to put his agility on display

Has never had to run the pick & roll vs quality competition.

Has never had to pass first

Has always played on teams loaded with talent

History of highly touted but inexperienced PG in the NBA. More misses than hits. It's a position that demands a lot, well beyond just physical tools.

Now, maybe the positives you see outweight those negatives in your eyes. He passes the eyeball test, I suppose.

To me, it's a lot of risk for a team that can't afford to make a mistake with these picks.
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:12 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by JMT
In a 16 point blowout that wasn't that close.

Vs Mo Mo Jones who worked him for 16 pts, 6 assists and 0 TO in 28 minutes...while Irving had 3 assists/1 TO.

The same Mo Mo Jones who averaged 2.4 assists/1.9 TO/9.7 ppg on the season, and anchored what many think was the worst big time D1 backcourt left after the first round.

The same Mo Mo Jones who has already transferred out because he won't beat out their incoming freshmen.

It's not all about how well a guy shoots the shots a defense will give you when they're kicking your ass.
Again, you show your idiocy. The game wasn't a blowout the whole way. Duke in fact led by 6 at halftime behind Irving's 14 points. He wasn't just racking up all of his points in garbage time.

Yes, Duke wound up getting blown out, so pin that on Irving if you want (although that's unfair). But don't try ignore that game so you can spout inane statements such as him not even looking like a draft pick.
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:22 PM   #41
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by JMT
Based on 11 games.

There have been No. 1 picks selected on MUCH less experience and with MUCH less tape. In the games that I saw, I thought he looked like a guy that would translate extremely well to the next level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT
Look, I don't hate the kid. He measured well at the combine, which is great since he did nothing else. Not that he had much to gain by doing agility drills, but as a GM, I'd like to see that my #1 franchise guy has been doing his due diligence leading yup to the biggest athletic challenge of his life.

It is pretty clear to me that the Cavaliers have contacted him and let him know that he is the pick. What was the sense of doing agility drills for other GMs that are never going to have the opportunity to draft you?

Also, other top guys opted out of the drills... Like Derrick Williams.

To me, Williams had much more reason to attempt to impress at the combine than Irving. It is still very unclear where Williams is going to be chosen. He could go anywhere from picks 2-4.

He should be scratching and clawing to get to that No. 2 pick... Unlike Irving, who is set at No. 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT
I see:

Extremely limited college experience, half against lousy competition

Toe injury that kept him out of 3/4 of his only season

Two months since cleared to play, yet doesn't appear to be in great shape and reluctant to put his agility on display

Has never had to run the pick & roll vs quality competition.

Has never had to pass first

Has always played on teams loaded with talent

History of highly touted but inexperienced PG in the NBA. More misses than hits.

Now, maybe the positives you see outweight those negatives in your eyes. He passes the eyeball test, I suppose.

To me, it's a lot of risk for a team that can't afford to make a mistake with these picks.

The pick is a risk regardless of who you take. Williams is a tweener who has never played SF in his life, a position that he would have to take on the Cavs with our front-line set (Hickson/Varejao).

At least Irving has played the PG position all of his life. We honestly have no clue how Williams will stand up at the 3. Personally, I think he is best served as a PF in the NBA and sticking him on the perimeter will nullify some of his best traits.

But, it is hearsay at this point. We have no idea.

The same goes for Irving, but less so... At least there is actual footage of him playing the position that he is going to be drafted for. And, let's be real... Those are the Top 2 players in this draft.

So, which guy is a bigger risk? I think the answer is relatively clear.

Look, this isn't a perfect science. There will always be bust potential. I remember people on the old EZBoard saying that they thought LeBron was going to be the biggest bust in NBA history because of his reliance on physical attributes instead of a refined game.

I'm not saying that Irving is the next LeBron James in terms of impact... I absolutely don't expect that. I'm not looking for someone to step in and single-handedly save the franchise. I'm not even sure if I want that...

I just want a guy to solidify the PG spot for the Cavs going forward and a guy who can learn the system from Byron Scott... And lead a team that already has a nice amount of young talent.

He doesn't have to be a superstar for me to be happy... Just a solid NBA point guard... And I think there is sufficient evidence to prove he can be one.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:36 AM   #42
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

After seeing he's 6'3 and has a 8'3 reach, why are we arguing the merits of Irving going #1? I was the first to question him bit after seeing his measurements, time to move on.

Time to get Burks now.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:57 AM   #43
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

Oh and here's a pre draft workout vid where Irving easily dunks with his left hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbrzfXAEzVM
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:35 AM   #44
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
so what if hes over 10% bodyfat? A player like Derrick Rose is probably at 10-11% bodyfat himself and is still one of the most athletic players in the league. Its no big deal

Actually, coming into the draft Derrick Rose was at 4.6% body fat. John Wall was 5.5%.


Secondly, I'm not sure how anyone glaned anything from his measurables. He skipped everything but height, weight, wingspan, etc. No vertical measurement, no 40 time, no bench, etc. I don't think the little there is, is that impressive. The one that stuck out to me is his wingspan. It's only 6'4". On the other hand Rose's is 6'8" and Wall's is 6'9.5"

I think Andre Miller is a good comparison. Maybe a better shooter. Good but not elite.
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:45 AM   #45
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Default Re: Kyrie Irving body fat more than 10 percent

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Originally Posted by UwishUhadWall
Actually, coming into the draft Derrick Rose was at 4.6% body fat. John Wall was 5.5%.


Secondly, I'm not sure how anyone glaned anything from his measurables. He skipped everything but height, weight, wingspan, etc. No vertical measurement, no 40 time, no bench, etc. I don't think the little there is, is that impressive. The one that stuck out to me is his wingspan. It's only 6'4". On the other hand Rose's is 6'8" and Wall's is 6'9.5"

I think Andre Miller is a good comparison. Maybe a better shooter. Good but not elite.

lol Wall homers. Wall won't be able to touch Irving in 2 years, you read it here.
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