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Old 08-08-2012, 02:04 AM   #76
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

OP has a real thirst for the topic:

Duncan was more successful than Shaq and Karl Malone more successful than Barkley. Magic was more successful than Bird. If you go by playoff rounds and great franchise competition, Magic was the most successful guy in the modern era - moreso than Jordan.

Teams are built around certain players. You get guys to compliment your stars. Dallas is a good organization and they've done that throughout Dirk's career. Minny wasn't a good organization so they didn't build anything. KG had to be the many things that the team and organization wasn't. Dirk wasn't a multiple faceted player at anythime in his career. So if the GM doesn't get defense, rebounds, other shooters, leaders, step up guys in the playoffs, and setup guys his team can't win. Minny was never able to bring in those type of players at all - and the one time they did, their health gave away.

Dirk in a bad organization/coaches would more than likely be Alex English or Kiki Vandeweghe.

Last edited by Pointguard : 08-08-2012 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:17 AM   #77
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

In terms of who I who want as an alpha dog type give me Dirk, even though KG was a very good-great scorer who I also consider an alpha dog. But I wouldn't put KG on Dirk's, Barkley, Petitt's, or Malone's level in those terms. Those four I feel put the foot on the gas more scoring than Timmy or KG. However KG and Timmy come up big in the huge moments and were known to average around 25 a night.

But in terms of who is flat out the better player, give me KG all day over Dirk. This is the case of the epic great scorer with an average to good all around game against the epic great all around player who's a very good to great scorer. In this partiucular case, I go for the epic great all around player. At times though I will go for the epic great scorer, it depends on the comparison.
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Old 08-08-2012, 02:19 AM   #78
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

...I can't really disagree with OP here. To be fair though, KG didn't have a lot of help in Minnesota, where Dirk tended to have better teams.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:08 AM   #79
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
Dirk >>>> KG

Like I said, give me the lead-dog.

This your point was debunked MANY times, and yet you keep repeating it and remaking the same thread over and over again. Its obvious you are just a troll, hence welcome to the ignore list
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:21 AM   #80
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

Dirk is the more valuable piece. You can pick up a few role players to give you what KG would give you, but Dirk is special.

Dirk is one of the few players who can be a true number 1 option on a winning team. There aren't many in NBA history, most of them are top players.

You are just nit picking if you talk about Dirks lack of D or rebounding, such things are easily picked up (as you saw by guys like Marion and Chandler who, while good, were nowhere near all-star level impact.)

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Old 08-08-2012, 10:01 AM   #81
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Default Re: Lets Be Real: Dirk Was More Successful as a Lead Dog Than KG

Dirk played on, at minimum, 5 teams that had better supporting casts than Garnett's best Minnesota team in 2004 (during the time frame KG was on MIN, not during the Boston years obviously). Just think about how long Dirk got to play with Nash and Finley compared to how many years KG got to play with the similar duo of Sprewell and Cassell. Every other year the best player on the team outside of KG was Wally Szczerbiak. Dirk also had one season where he played with Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker in their primes along with Nash/Finley still on the team. The minute KG had a great roster around him he won a Championship and has had tons of Playoff success since being on that team. He was the best player on the Celtics during that Championship season as well (arguably his entire time with Boston if you consider how important his defense is to that teams success). If Garnett had played his Minnesota years with the type of talent that Dirk had in Dallas during the same period, he would be even further up the list of All-Time greats because he would have undoubtedly had more Playoff appearances and Playoff success than he did in Minny, and debatably another Championship or two (considering those Dirk/Nash/Finley Dallas teams weakness was defense and he was capable of transforming an entire defense by himself).

Garnett was the better post scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, post defender, perimeter defender, passer, leader and was a much more physical player. Dirk is a great scorer but he doesn't do anything else on the court better than above average and most things he does poorly outside of scoring. Dirk was also always one of the worst defensive players on his team and always one of the two worst defensive starters on his team (the worst ever since Nash left). Dirk has never carried the Mavericks team, he has carried their offense at times (he was always their best scorer but he didn't carry their offense alone when Nash/Finley were there) but their supporting casts have always carried him defensively. The main reason those Mavs team always lacked the defense to win is because Dirk was one of the worst defenders on the team, it falls on his shoulders as much as anyone for why that teams defense was never good enough to win it all. Players who truly carry their team are players that are the best player on both ends of the floor, like Garnett was on the 2008 Celtics team that won a Championship and every year of his career in Minnesota. KG was the "lead-dog" on the 2008 Celtics team that had Pierce and Allen on it, DPOY and best offensive player on the team in the Playoffs.

The only reason why this thread holds any water (which it doesn't really because KG was obviously the better overall player) is because Dirk played on better teams when KG was in Minnesota.

(Dirk was also 2 years younger, while playing 3 less seasons in the NBA and being closer to his prime than KG was in 2011, so saying that KG couldn't lead the same Mavs team to a title in 2011 is a retarded and worthless point to bring up. Not to mention KG probably actually could have led a similarly talented team to a Championship if it was built towards his talent like the Mavs were for Dirk.)

Last edited by RIP CITY : 08-08-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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