What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

[AirBonner]

Hypothetically let’s say Charles Barkley does it. How much would this hurt MJ’s legacy?

[Axe]

[3ball]

Depends

Does Barkley have 10 HOF teammates and basically need every good player the league has to beat mj?

If so, that would enhance Jordan's career

[GrayGoat]

Depends

Does Barkley have 10 HOF teammates and basically need every good player the league has to beat mj?

That would enhance Jordan's career

By your own admission if you are good enough to make the finals you are good enough to win the chip. I’m not even including the single digit wins

[coastalmarker99]

Depends

Does Barkley have 10 HOF teammates and basically need every good player the league has to beat mj?

If so, that would enhance Jordan's career

Even then with that team, their series were so close and only 9 points separated the better player from having 5 series wins over the other player who was on the most stacked team in Nba history which featured over 10 hall of famers and a hall of fame coach to boot just to stop the other player.

[GrayGoat]

Even then with that team, their series were so close and only 9 points separated the better player from having 5 series wins over the other player who was on the most stacked team in Nba history which featured over 10 hall of famers and a hall of fame coach to boot just to stop the other player.

All that player had to do was play even barely below average and he would have beat Russell. But he couldn’t

[Axe]

The goalpost would be moved. If baldan has been in the finals several times but lost more than he did won, then his stans would probably tell that he faced tough competition instead.

[3ball]

By your own admission if you are good enough to make the finals you are good enough to win the chip.

Sure maybe if you have a 1-3 all-star or "good player" deficit like MJ did in all his Finals, or 3 of Lebron's Finals

But no one overcomes an 8 HOF deficit

[coastalmarker99]

All that player had to do was play even barely below average and he would have beat Russell. But he couldn’t

They played against each other in 8 playoff years: 49 games. Those same years, Wilt played 46 playoff games against other teams/centers. The results Wilt's P/G vs. others in PO in 8 years was 26.5 Wilt's P/G vs. Russell in PO in 8 years was 25.7

So Russell held Wilt to 0.8 fewer P/G

Rebounds: 24.6 (vs. others) vs. 28.4 (vs. Russ) Wilt had 3.8 MORE rebounds vs. Russ than vs.others

TS%: . 529 vs. .518 Russell held him to 1% lower shooting

Russell vs. Others & vs. Wilt in PO in 8 years Russell P/G: 16.5 (vs. others) 14.9 (vs. Wilt) Wilt held Russell to 1.6 fewer P/G

Russell R/G: 23.8 (vs. Others) vs. 24.7 (vs. Wilt) Russell had 0.9 more rebounds

Russell TS%: .508 (vs. others) vs .456 Russell had 5% lower shooting efficiency vs. Wilt

Wilt also averaged more FTA/FGA against Russ than against other centers in the PO: .52 vs .60

Russell averaged fewer FTA/FGA against Wilt: .56 vs .37

Wilt averaged 2.5 fouls per game against Russ and 2.5 vs. others. Russell averaged 3.3 PF/G vs. others and 4.1 vs. Wilt.

Overall, Wilt vs. Russell as % of Wilt vs. others: P/G 97% Rb/G 114% A/G 84% FG% 94% FT% 114% TS% 98% FTA/FGA 115% PF/G 101%

Except for assists--which are dependent on teammates making their shots--Wilt's numbers were basically the same against Russ Russ vs. Wilt as % Russ vs. others P/G 90% Rb/G 104% A/G 98% FG% 90% FT% 99% FTA/FGA67% TS% 90% PF/G 124%

Except for rebounds, Russell's numbers were worse in every category

Thus, Wilt held down Russell more than Russ held down Wilt in the PO in those 8 years.

[coastalmarker99]

Sure maybe if you have a 1-3 all-star or "good player" deficit like MJ did in all his Finals, or 3 of Lebron's Finals

But no one overcomes an 8 HOF deficit

Wilt lost 4 game 7s to the Celtics by a combined margin of 9 points. That's about 2 points on average. And Wilt dominated Russell in those games Wilt's total combined average across these four-game sevens was 21.3 ppg and 28.5 RPG and 4 APG on A staggering .65.2 field goal percentage. Also, These are Wilt's teammates shooting percentages in the four years that he lost to the Celtics in seven.


62 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .35.4 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'65 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .41.3 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'68 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .41.6 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'69 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .42.1 from the field. Lose game seven of Finals.



like cmon Wilt was far better then Russell he just didn't have the supporting cast to overcome those stacked team most years.

[3ball]

They played against each other in 8 playoff years: 49 games. Those same years, Wilt played 46 playoff games against other teams/centers. The results Wilt's P/G vs. others in PO in 8 years was 26.5 Wilt's P/G vs. Russell in PO in 8 years was 25.7

So Russell held Wilt to 0.8 fewer P/G

Rebounds: 24.6 (vs. others) vs. 28.4 (vs. Russ) Wilt had 3.8 MORE rebounds vs. Russ than vs.others

TS%: . 529 vs. .518 Russell held him to 1% lower shooting

Russell vs. Others & vs. Wilt in PO in 8 years Russell P/G: 16.5 (vs. others) 14.9 (vs. Wilt) Wilt held Russell to 1.6 fewer P/G

Russell R/G: 23.8 (vs. Others) vs. 24.7 (vs. Wilt) Russell had 0.9 more rebounds

Russell TS%: .508 (vs. others) vs .456 Russell had 5% lower shooting efficiency vs. Wilt

Wilt also averaged more FTA/FGA against Russ than against other centers in the PO: .52 vs .60

Russell averaged fewer FTA/FGA against Wilt: .56 vs .37

Wilt averaged 2.5 fouls per game against Russ and 2.5 vs. others. Russell averaged 3.3 PF/G vs. others and 4.1 vs. Wilt.

Overall, Wilt vs. Russell as % of Wilt vs. others: P/G 97% Rb/G 114% A/G 84% FG% 94% FT% 114% TS% 98% FTA/FGA 115% PF/G 101%

Except for assists--which are dependent on teammates making their shots--Wilt's numbers were basically the same against Russ Russ vs. Wilt as % Russ vs. others P/G 90% Rb/G 104% A/G 98% FG% 90% FT% 99% FTA/FGA67% TS% 90% PF/G 124%

Except for rebounds, Russell's numbers were worse in every category

Thus, Wilt held down Russell more than Russ held down Wilt in the PO in those 8 years.

Bumboclat

[coastalmarker99]

All that player had to do was play even barely below average and he would have beat Russell. But he couldn’t

Russ fans claim that Celtics 7-1 PO record shows Russ dominated and is better than Wilt as a player.

Wilt fans say he dominated Russ individually but that Russ’s teammates outplayed Wilt’s. This thread looks at the actual record, series by series and game by game.

I examined all 49 PO games. I tracked data in four categories: TS%, Pts, Reb, Ast.

The overall data showed this: PTS: Wilt: 43-6 (Wilt had more points than BR in 43 games vs. 6 games for Russ.) REB: Wilt: 32-18 (1 tie) AST: BR: 27-15 (7 ties) TS%: Wilt: 32-17

I figured out Russ/Wilt’s teammates’ data by subtracting Russ/Wilt’s stats from team stats.

PTS: BR's teammates: 40-9 (BR teammates had more points than Wilt's in 40 of those games, vs. 9 for Wilt's mates.) REB: BR teammates, 33-15 (1 tie) AST: BR teammates: 28-16-5 TS%: BR teammates, 26-23

[GrayGoat]

Sure maybe if you have a 1-3 all-star or "good player" deficit like MJ did in all his Finals, or 3 of Lebron's Finals

But no one overcomes an 8 HOF deficit

Literally every finals went to 7 games with Wilt and Russell. If you make it to game 7 you can win period. Ain’t no excuse bub

[3ball]

Literally every finals went to 7 games with Wilt and Russell. If you make it to game 7 you can win period. Ain’t no excuse bub

Nope... An 8 HOF deficit is insurmountable

[Hakkim90cc]

It depends. Does barkley have steph curry and klay thompson in his backcourt?