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  1. #1
    7-time NBA All-Star AirBonner's Avatar
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    Question What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Hypothetically letís say Charles Barkley does it. How much would this hurt MJís legacy?

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat


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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Depends

    Does Barkley have 10 HOF teammates and basically need every good player the league has to beat mj?

    If so, that would enhance Jordan's career

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    Depends

    Does Barkley have 10 HOF teammates and basically need every good player the league has to beat mj?

    That would enhance Jordan's career
    By your own admission if you are good enough to make the finals you are good enough to win the chip. I’m not even including the single digit wins

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    Depends

    Does Barkley have 10 HOF teammates and basically need every good player the league has to beat mj?

    If so, that would enhance Jordan's career
    Even then with that team, their series were so close and only 9 points separated the better player from having 5 series wins over the other player who was on the most stacked team in Nba history which featured over 10 hall of famers and a hall of fame coach to boot just to stop the other player.

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by coastalmarker99 View Post
    Even then with that team, their series were so close and only 9 points separated the better player from having 5 series wins over the other player who was on the most stacked team in Nba history which featured over 10 hall of famers and a hall of fame coach to boot just to stop the other player.
    All that player had to do was play even barely below average and he would have beat Russell. But he couldn’t

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    The goalpost would be moved. If baldan has been in the finals several times but lost more than he did won, then his stans would probably tell that he faced tough competition instead.

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGoat View Post

    By your own admission if you are good enough to make the finals you are good enough to win the chip.

    Sure maybe if you have a 1-3 all-star or "good player" deficit like MJ did in all his Finals, or 3 of Lebron's Finals

    But no one overcomes an 8 HOF deficit

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGoat View Post
    All that player had to do was play even barely below average and he would have beat Russell. But he couldn’t

    They played against each other in 8 playoff years: 49 games. Those same years, Wilt played 46 playoff games against other teams/centers. The results Wilt's P/G vs. others in PO in 8 years was 26.5 Wilt's P/G vs. Russell in PO in 8 years was 25.7

    So Russell held Wilt to 0.8 fewer P/G

    Rebounds: 24.6 (vs. others) vs. 28.4 (vs. Russ) Wilt had 3.8 MORE rebounds vs. Russ than vs.others

    TS%: . 529 vs. .518 Russell held him to 1% lower shooting

    Russell vs. Others & vs. Wilt in PO in 8 years Russell P/G: 16.5 (vs. others) 14.9 (vs. Wilt) Wilt held Russell to 1.6 fewer P/G

    Russell R/G: 23.8 (vs. Others) vs. 24.7 (vs. Wilt) Russell had 0.9 more rebounds

    Russell TS%: .508 (vs. others) vs .456 Russell had 5% lower shooting efficiency vs. Wilt

    Wilt also averaged more FTA/FGA against Russ than against other centers in the PO: .52 vs .60

    Russell averaged fewer FTA/FGA against Wilt: .56 vs .37

    Wilt averaged 2.5 fouls per game against Russ and 2.5 vs. others. Russell averaged 3.3 PF/G vs. others and 4.1 vs. Wilt.

    Overall, Wilt vs. Russell as % of Wilt vs. others: P/G 97% Rb/G 114% A/G 84% FG% 94% FT% 114% TS% 98% FTA/FGA 115% PF/G 101%

    Except for assists--which are dependent on teammates making their shots--Wilt's numbers were basically the same against Russ Russ vs. Wilt as % Russ vs. others P/G 90% Rb/G 104% A/G 98% FG% 90% FT% 99% FTA/FGA67% TS% 90% PF/G 124%

    Except for rebounds, Russell's numbers were worse in every category

    Thus, Wilt held down Russell more than Russ held down Wilt in the PO in those 8 years.

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    Sure maybe if you have a 1-3 all-star or "good player" deficit like MJ did in all his Finals, or 3 of Lebron's Finals

    But no one overcomes an 8 HOF deficit
    Wilt lost 4 game 7s to the Celtics by a combined margin of 9 points. That's about 2 points on average. And Wilt dominated Russell in those games Wilt's total combined average across these four-game sevens was 21.3 ppg and 28.5 RPG and 4 APG on A staggering .65.2 field goal percentage. Also, These are Wilt's teammates shooting percentages in the four years that he lost to the Celtics in seven.


    62 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .35.4 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

    '65 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .41.3 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

    '68 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .41.6 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

    '69 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .42.1 from the field. Lose game seven of Finals.



    like cmon Wilt was far better then Russell he just didn't have the supporting cast to overcome those stacked team most years.

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by coastalmarker99 View Post
    They played against each other in 8 playoff years: 49 games. Those same years, Wilt played 46 playoff games against other teams/centers. The results Wilt's P/G vs. others in PO in 8 years was 26.5 Wilt's P/G vs. Russell in PO in 8 years was 25.7

    So Russell held Wilt to 0.8 fewer P/G

    Rebounds: 24.6 (vs. others) vs. 28.4 (vs. Russ) Wilt had 3.8 MORE rebounds vs. Russ than vs.others

    TS%: . 529 vs. .518 Russell held him to 1% lower shooting

    Russell vs. Others & vs. Wilt in PO in 8 years Russell P/G: 16.5 (vs. others) 14.9 (vs. Wilt) Wilt held Russell to 1.6 fewer P/G

    Russell R/G: 23.8 (vs. Others) vs. 24.7 (vs. Wilt) Russell had 0.9 more rebounds

    Russell TS%: .508 (vs. others) vs .456 Russell had 5% lower shooting efficiency vs. Wilt

    Wilt also averaged more FTA/FGA against Russ than against other centers in the PO: .52 vs .60

    Russell averaged fewer FTA/FGA against Wilt: .56 vs .37

    Wilt averaged 2.5 fouls per game against Russ and 2.5 vs. others. Russell averaged 3.3 PF/G vs. others and 4.1 vs. Wilt.

    Overall, Wilt vs. Russell as % of Wilt vs. others: P/G 97% Rb/G 114% A/G 84% FG% 94% FT% 114% TS% 98% FTA/FGA 115% PF/G 101%

    Except for assists--which are dependent on teammates making their shots--Wilt's numbers were basically the same against Russ Russ vs. Wilt as % Russ vs. others P/G 90% Rb/G 104% A/G 98% FG% 90% FT% 99% FTA/FGA67% TS% 90% PF/G 124%

    Except for rebounds, Russell's numbers were worse in every category

    Thus, Wilt held down Russell more than Russ held down Wilt in the PO in those 8 years.
    Bumboclat

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGoat View Post
    All that player had to do was play even barely below average and he would have beat Russell. But he couldn’t
    Russ fans claim that Celtics 7-1 PO record shows Russ dominated and is better than Wilt as a player.

    Wilt fans say he dominated Russ individually but that Russ’s teammates outplayed Wilt’s. This thread looks at the actual record, series by series and game by game.

    I examined all 49 PO games. I tracked data in four categories: TS%, Pts, Reb, Ast.

    The overall data showed this: PTS: Wilt: 43-6 (Wilt had more points than BR in 43 games vs. 6 games for Russ.) REB: Wilt: 32-18 (1 tie) AST: BR: 27-15 (7 ties) TS%: Wilt: 32-17

    I figured out Russ/Wilt’s teammates’ data by subtracting Russ/Wilt’s stats from team stats.

    PTS: BR's teammates: 40-9 (BR teammates had more points than Wilt's in 40 of those games, vs. 9 for Wilt's mates.) REB: BR teammates, 33-15 (1 tie) AST: BR teammates: 28-16-5 TS%: BR teammates, 26-23

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ball View Post
    Sure maybe if you have a 1-3 all-star or "good player" deficit like MJ did in all his Finals, or 3 of Lebron's Finals

    But no one overcomes an 8 HOF deficit
    Literally every finals went to 7 games with Wilt and Russell. If you make it to game 7 you can win period. Ain’t no excuse bub

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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGoat View Post
    Literally every finals went to 7 games with Wilt and Russell. If you make it to game 7 you can win period. Ain’t no excuse bub
    Nope... An 8 HOF deficit is insurmountable

  15. #15
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    Default Re: What if MJ allowed a rival opponent to 8-peat

    It depends. Does barkley have steph curry and klay thompson in his backcourt?

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