"Pippen was the best player in the world in 93, 94, 95" - Dennis Rodman

[Round Mound]

I would not go as far as to say that Pippen was the best player in 93 94 95 but he was definetly top 10

From 93 to 95 i have the following players over Pippen:

1-MJ
2-Hakeem
3-Barkley
4-Malone
5-Robinson
6-Shaq
7-Ewing
8-Drexler
9-Pippen
10-Stockton
11-Payton

Honorable mentions Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Chris Mullin, Jason Kidd, Derrick Coleman, Mark Price, Kevin Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller etc

[Axe]

It's not that Jordan being 1-9 before Pip is false. The problem is why his record before Pip is always brought up. The argument is that Jordan won with little and even in some cases absolutely no help. That you can put any combination of run of the mill to solid players around him and hed find some way to win. So the question is why didnt he donit before Pip came?

I dont see Jordans playoff record before Pippen being an indictment against him because they were solid to run of the mill players. Orlando Woolridge and Charles Oakley were very good basketball players Paxson was there. Why didnt they win? I'd even go so far as to say that Oakley might been more impactful than Grant.

The fact is that Jordan was young. And Woolridge was a solid player while Pippen was a perennial top 5 player.

They weren't even winning against the pistons until they had phil to coach them.

[Roundball_Rock]

I see not much has changed. Good to see you still around though

Likewise.

Yeah, I come back after years and it's still the same nonsense from MJ stans.

And again. These guys had like 10 years to succeed. Pip had 1 because hes in Jordan's shadow. How do you know he couldn't have had 1 epic playoff run in his career?

Dirk is a good example. He was perceived one way his entire career until he had that 2011 run and everything changed. There were questions about Kobe without Shaq until he won, with Gasol, five years later. Pippen did not have a player of Gasol's caliber.

The comp people always bring up is Messier in hockey but people forget Messier didn't win the first year after Gretzky left either. Plus Gretzky left in a trade where they got value back for him. Jordan retired right before the season started.

One of the funny things is the people who dog Pippen for not winning in 94' are the same people who hype Ewing, Payton, Miller, Malone who had their entire primes to win as the best player and never did it.

Maybe so, but if not for the playoffs, James Harden would be viewed as the best player. Over the last 2 or 3 years.

Would he? A knock on him has always been his defense, even during the regular season. Harden is universally considered top 5 (even with the qualms about his playoffs, although his stats against GS were identical to Kawhi's but one choked and the other beasted?) and you have some people who will put him as high as 2nd or 3rd (partly depends on how much you think LeBron has declined). Giannis is #1 but Harden, LeBron, Davis, Luka can go in any order 2-5. Durant and Curry are hurt but last year Luka and Davis weren't in the mix and going back further you take out Giannis and add Westbrook. Harden has been right there in the top 5 conversation consistently in Houston.

Yeah. I'm talking about the postseason. Even with Pippen's poor shooting not having a guy like Rodman hurt them. Worm is STILL underappreciated. Not a lot offense there, but the defense? Rebounding? Athletic ability? The overall toughness? Guy helped Chicago become the most feared team alive.

Yup. It is no coincidence they always had a PF like that when they won, whether it was Rodman or Grant. It gets lost in the "MJ is back" narrative but that was the biggest factor in their 95' loss.

Some of that is limited time integrating Mike in their offense. Maybe a bit of confusion with roles there.

Yeah those were the problems, especially at the top end. So Pippen went from the #1 option to #2 and Kukoc #2 to #3 and Armstrong #3 to #4--but it affected everyone. The Bulls averaged 82 shots a game and MJ shows up and takes 24. Those 24 had to come from everyone. Look at their FGA per game in the season and the playoffs (keep in mind the season numbers include the hit from MJ in March and April):

Pippen: 16.7 to 13.1
Kukoc: 11.9 to 11.1
Armstrong: 10.9 to 7.9

Maybe if MJ came back in January instead of mid-March they could have had time to work out the kinks.

The rebounding problem was talked about A LOT after that series from what I can remember.

Me too, which is why it is funny that it is completely forgotten. It is boiled down to MJ being "rusty" now.

[Roundball_Rock]

It's not that Jordan being 1-9 before Pip is false. The problem is why his record before Pip is always brought up. The argument is that Jordan won with little and even in some cases absolutely no help. That you can put any combination of run of the mill to solid players around him and hed find some way to win. So the question is why didnt he donit before Pip came?

Well said. That is really what it boils down to. MJ stans go around saying MJ is the best because of his team success. They say if others were as good as MJ they would have had the same team success. When people point to his favorable team, injury, and competition circumstances, the MJ crowd will say he would have won anyway and that his team was not that good, other than him.

Note that they always talk about "6 rings" and "6-0" like it was destined no matter what. It's never "yeah he won 6 but maybe it would be 3 or 4 if things break differently." Plus it is always "Jordan won" or "Jordan wouldn't allow Game 7s" etc., never the team.

The natural response is if all this is true, where was Jordan before or after Pippen, Phil Jackson, the triangle offense, etc.?

[knicksman]

pippen is just an iguodala type. Not worth building around. Hes just lucky he played with mj whos unselfish that hes willing to sacrifice stats for the betterment of the team. Had he played with lebron, he would just be another nobody.

[TheCorporation]

pippen is just an iguodala type. Not worth building around. Hes just lucky he played with mj whos unselfish that hes willing to sacrifice stats for the betterment of the team. Had he played with lebron, he would just be another nobody.

Stick to trolling, leave your low IQ posts at the door. Real men are speaking

[Indian guy]

Breaking News: Athletes, be it former or current, say stupid shit all the time.

Pippen has 0 argument for league's best player from 93-95. He's not even Top 5 in '93.

[TheCorporation]

Breaking News: Athletes, be it former or current, say stupid shit all the time.

Pippen has 0 argument for league's best player from 93-95. He's not even Top 5 in '93.

He won 55 games in '94 missing his #1st option and winning 55 games, making 1st team all nba, and getting 3rd in MVP votes...

[Manny98]

How many players in the NBA could lead a cast of Horace Grant and a bunch of average players to 55+ wins

[aceman]

He won 55 games in '94 missing his #1st option and winning 55 games, making 1st team all nba, and getting 3rd in MVP votes...

Pippen also missed 10 games in 1994

[LAL]

How many players in the NBA could lead a cast of Horace Grant and a bunch of average players to 55+ wins

Then look up all the 55+ win teams in history.. After you're done looking up all the regular season heroes.. look up all the superstars with 4,5, 6 rings. Your boy isn't on that list. MJ has nothing to do with that. Lebron really tried man

[Roundball_Rock]

The 93' stuff is disingenuous. Rodman probably meant 1993-1994 but MJ stans are glomming onto it to bring up 93', arguably his weakest prime regular season, instead of addressing Rodman's legitimate point about Pippen's peak years. Even if he wasn't #1 he was damn close.

[RogueBorg]

The 93' stuff is disingenuous. Rodman probably meant 1993-1994 but MJ stans are glomming onto it to bring up 93', arguably his weakest prime regular season, instead of addressing Rodman's legitimate point about Pippen's peak years. Even if he wasn't #1 he was damn close.

There's no way Pippen was better than Jordan in 1992'-'93. It's definitely '93-'94. Compared to '91-'92, '92-'93 Pippen took a step back in points, assists, fg percentage, free throw percentage. That being said, I don't believe the Bulls beat Phoenix without him.

[Roundball_Rock]

There's no way Pippen was better than Jordan in 1992'-'93. It's definitely '93-'94. Compared to '91-'92, '92-'93 Pippen took a step back in points, assists, fg percentage, free throw percentage. That being said, I don't believe the Bulls beat Phoenix without him.

Agreed and when people say he was the best (including MJ) they mean 94' and/or 95'.

Yeah Pippen was bothered by a nagging injury that season but he still put up 21/9/8 against Phoenix.

[Phoenix]

Conventional wisdom at the time was Scottie was the best 'non center' in the league. In the aftermath of MJs departure in 93 the centers took over the league. Hakeem, Admiral, Shaq. Pippen fairly could be called the best of anyone who wasn't in that class of center. Ewing was a slightly lesser version of the player we saw in 92 and 93, still a top flight player but I wouldn't have taken him over Pip in 94 all things considered. It's close either way. I don't think anyone else had a strong argument. Maybe Karl Malone? Barkley wasn't healthy in 94. If he was as he is in 93 he would have had another season on that level. Scottie was top 5 in 94 and 95 those years. Best? No.