"Pippen was the best player in the world in 93, 94, 95" - Dennis Rodman

[Bawkish]

The Bulls discarded Jordan for Pete Myers and still won 55 games and could have made a Finals run if they got some type of upgrade for MJ instead of dirt nothing.

it's not healthy talking to yourself

seek help

[AlternativeAcc.]

The Bulls discarded Jordan for Pete Myers and still won 55 games and could have made a Finals run if they got some type of upgrade for MJ instead of dirt nothing.

Lebrons never played for a team that was even capable of winning 35 games without him

Levels to this GOAT shit my man.

[Axe]

Lebrons never played for a team that was even capable of winning 35 games without him

Levels to this GOAT shit my man.

What do you mean? Miami won 45+ games in 2010.

[AlternativeAcc.]

What do you mean? Miami won 45+ games in 2010.

Different team

Take lebron off in 2011 and that's a lottery squad imo

[3ball]

Lebrons never played for a team that was even capable of winning 35 games without him

Levels to this GOAT shit my man.

Wade and AD won 48 in their last full season before Lebron became their Pippen in 11' and 20', respectively.

Then Lebron left Miami when they were already underperforming every Western playoff team in 2014, aka lottery-caliber in the West (they lost to the West by record amount)..

Then the Heat missed the 15' playoffs by 1/2 game due to Bosh/Wade missing 40 games.. But in 2016, Wade led the Heat back to contention and was a playoff star again.

[3ball]

.
* Rodman is mad that he couldn't do shit with the league MVP in 1995 (Robinson)

* 95' Pippen had a .500 team before MJ returned to carry him to another 3-peat

* Pippen was bad in the playoffs for each of the 3 years that Rodman said Pippen was good:

13' Wade. Playoffs...... 18.7 PER.. 3.0 bpm.. 1.0 vorp.. 0.108 ws/48
93' Pippen Playoffs'.... 16.9 PER.. 2.0 bpm.. 0.8 vorp.. 0.083 ws/48

94' Ewing. ECSF.... 23/12 on 53%
94' Pippen ECSF..... 22/8 on 41%

14' Wade. ECF........ 20 and 5 apg... 47% (1b to bron's 22 ppg)
95' Pippen ECSF'.... 19 and 6 apg... 41%

Comparing sidekick help while trying to 3-peat

14' Wade Playoffs...'.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen Playoffs... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm


Per 100 Possessions

14' Wade...'.. 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg

TLDR: Rodman is off his rocker

[97 bulls]

Top 2-3 is a stretch when you consider Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Barkley, Ewing, and Malone. Not to mention MJ returned in 1995 and played in 1996.

It cant be a stretch if hes garnering more all-NBA votes than these players. Come on.

Ewing in 1994 beat Chicago with Pippen. In 1995, Ewing led his team to 55 wins and the #3 seed.

You're joking right? We gonna hold this against Pippen in that the Bulls lost their best player and go in to play their rival and they barely lose?

Barkley's impact in both 1994 and 1995 can't be ignored either.

Also, I'm putting Penny above Pippen those years. Pippen has the clear advantage in 1994 as Penny was a rookie, but Penny outplayed Pippen in the 1995 and 1996 playoffs with comparable regular season production.

Remember, it was Pippen that guarded Penny in the '96 ECF and Penny dominated him.

mehya has a point in that he's top 8, maybe 9 if you throw in Kemp. People forget how well Kemp would play in the playoffs against elite competition.

Hardaway did not dominate Pippen in 96. Look at Penny's FG% in each game. 71% in a 38pt blowout loss. 43%, 33, and 40%. Hardly dominant.

I obviously cant argue you guys perception of Pip. I think it's clear that you guys are more Jordan lovers that unbiased basketball fans. At the least you guys are revisionist. This doesnt apply to you Hoops. While I think you're a fair poster, I think you are trying to inflict your own personal view on what was perceived back then. And that's where you're wrong bro. The facts dont support your way of thinking.

[HoopsNY]

It cant be a stretch if hes garnering more all-NBA votes than these players. Come on.


You're joking right? We gonna hold this against Pippen in that the Bulls lost their best player and go in to play their rival and they barely lose?

How am I "holding" it against Pippen? The teams were evenly matched and Ewing and NY won. In addition, Ewing had a better year in 1995. What's so outrageous about that?

Hardaway did not dominate Pippen in 96. Look at Penny's FG% in each game. 71% in a 38pt blowout loss. 43%, 33, and 40%. Hardly dominant.

On paper, the games were a 2-2 split but anyone who watched Penny that series saw him outplay Pippen. In addition, some of the statistics are skewed because when Chicago switched MJ onto Penny, he rarely scored. It's a small sample size but the numbers are skewed a bit.

I obviously cant argue you guys perception of Pip. I think it's clear that you guys are more Jordan lovers that unbiased basketball fans. At the least you guys are revisionist. This doesnt apply to you Hoops. While I think you're a fair poster, I think you are trying to inflict your own personal view on what was perceived back then. And that's where you're wrong bro. The facts dont support your way of thinking.

I can't speak for the other posters, but I don't see how this is revisionist in the least. I was around back then, too, and right off the bat, Hakeem, Malone, Robinson, and Shaq get the nod unanimously over Pippen. Then you have MJ for a small sample in 1995 but definitely 1996. So that's 5 guys right there.

Ewing, Kemp, Barkley, and Penny are closer in rank, but it's not unfounded to put them over Pippen, collectively, for all 3 years.

Kemp was a 21/11 player on high efficiency. Did you see what he did to Malone, Rodman, and Hakeem in the paint in the playoffs? Seattle won 63, 57, and 64 games in that three year stretch. Granted, Kemp had GP. But Kemp's performances in the playoffs trump that of Pippen's.

I'm not sure what your argument is for Pippen decisively being better than Ewing in those years. Can you explain that?

[97 bulls]

How am I "holding" it against Pippen? The teams were evenly matched and Ewing and NY won. In addition, Ewing had a better year in 1995. What's so outrageous about that?

The Bulls barely beat the Knicks WITH Jordan. Now you're saying they shouldve beat their biggest competitors at the time without their best player? And I'm sure if I put let's say Latrell Sprewell or Hersey Hawkins on the 94 Bulls, then you'd say theh dont get any further because you want to protect Michael Jordan's legacy. The fact that they took the Knicks to 7 hard fought games, and one being lost in a controversial manner says a lot.

On paper, the games were a 2-2 split but anyone who watched Penny that series saw him outplay Pippen. In addition, some of the statistics are skewed because when Chicago switched MJ onto Penny, he rarely scored. It's a small sample size but the numbers are skewed a bit.

I watched that series. And I didn't come away thinking Penny outplayed Pip much less dominated him. And while I agree Jordan obviously checked Penny at times, Pippen was the main guy. Theres a website that was made to actually prop up MJ that even said Pippen guarded Penny most of time in 96. The website was made to squash the argument that Pippen always guarded the opposition's best scorer.

I can't speak for the other posters, but I don't see how this is revisionist in the least. I was around back then, too, and right off the bat, Hakeem, Malone, Robinson, and Shaq get the nod unanimously over Pippen. Then you have MJ for a small sample in 1995 but definitely 1996. So that's 5 guys right there.

Ewing, Kemp, Barkley, and Penny are closer in rank, but it's not unfounded to put them over Pippen, collectively, for all 3 years.

Kemp was a 21/11 player on high efficiency. Did you see what he did to Malone, Rodman, and Hakeem in the paint in the playoffs? Seattle won 63, 57, and 64 games in that three year stretch. Granted, Kemp had GP. But Kemp's performances in the playoffs trump that of Pippen's.

I'm not sure what your argument is for Pippen decisively being better than Ewing in those years. Can you explain that?

Look where they finished in MVP, All-NBA, DPOY, and All-Defense teams bro. Go back and read this thread. Roundball Rock plainly lays out why Pip was so highly regarded by his peers from 94-96. Even in the video, Max Kellerman called Pippen the 2nd best player after Olajuwan. And hes no Pippen fan.

[scuzzy]

97 Bulls taking these Jordan stans to class

[scuzzy]

[Shooter]

Class is in session. We have a real Bulls fan here.

97 Bulls taking these Jordan stans to class

[mehyaM24]

But that's the thing. Its nots just me bro. I ask again, did you read the information Roundball Rock put out? He was clearly top 2-3 over 94-96. Based on All NBA, MVP, All defense and DPOY voting. Not to mention what the players were saying. Rodman wasnt the only one that felt that way about Pippen.

we can pullup cherry-picked quotes for most stars. thats not an argument dude. some of pippen's peers like shaq/barkley/webber don't believe he was that guy. others, like reggie for example, thought he was a great all-around player. it really depends on your source, although by most objective measures, pippen never produced like a top 5 guy. forget best in the world. again, that's with defense & postseason play accounted for.

shaq/drob/malone/barkley/jordan are all guys i'd take over pippen. and so would most gm's back then.

mehya has a point in that he's top 8, maybe 9 if you throw in Kemp. People forget how well Kemp would play in the playoffs against elite competition.

that's the reality here, hoops. top 8 is really generous when you start talking impact. bigmen ruled the scene in the 90s, and the only perimeter player who had bigman-like impact was jordan.

[HoopsNY]

The Bulls barely beat the Knicks WITH Jordan. Now you're saying they shouldve beat their biggest competitors at the time without their best player? And I'm sure if I put let's say Latrell Sprewell or Hersey Hawkins on the 94 Bulls, then you'd say theh dont get any further because you want to protect Michael Jordan's legacy. The fact that they took the Knicks to 7 hard fought games, and one being lost in a controversial manner says a lot.

I'm not sure what Jordan not being on the team has to do with it. The two teams were evenly matched. If Pippen was indeed the better player, then the combination of him and Grant should have proven to be successful. If we go by what you're saying, Pippen+Grant are the better combo than Ewing+Starks and resulted in a win.

But that didn't happen. Chicago lost and Ewing also had a better year the following season. So if he led his team to a higher seed in both 1994 and 1995, put up better numbers or at least comparable, and beat Pippen head to head while performing better, why would we just assume that Pippen > Ewing during that stretch of time?

I watched that series. And I didn't come away thinking Penny outplayed Pip much less dominated him. And while I agree Jordan obviously checked Penny at times, Pippen was the main guy. Theres a website that was made to actually prop up MJ that even said Pippen guarded Penny most of time in 96. The website was made to squash the argument that Pippen always guarded the opposition's best scorer.

Okay, I agree that he didn't dominate him, but he did outplay him. Pippen did guard Penny most of the time, which is essentially my point. He didn't shut down Penny and Penny did in fact have the better series. Not to mention, did you watch Penny in the '95 finals?

Penny put up 26/5/8 on 64% TS%. Penny's performance was better than Pippen's 1996 finals and anything Pippen did between 1994-96, on the biggest stage.

That of course is lost in the conversation and completely ignored.

Look where they finished in MVP, All-NBA, DPOY, and All-Defense teams bro. Go back and read this thread. Roundball Rock plainly lays out why Pip was so highly regarded by his peers from 94-96. Even in the video, Max Kellerman called Pippen the 2nd best player after Olajuwan. And hes no Pippen fan.

Kellerman is wrong. Pippen definitely doesn't rank higher than Robinson, Shaq, Malone, and MJ from 1994-96. And then there are a host of players who are better if not equal.

One thing you're forgetting is that MJ missed all of 1994 and most of 1995. Shaq missed a significant portion of 1995 and 1996. Penny was a rookie in 1994. And Barkley missed a lot of games as well between the three years (42 in total).

It makes sense that Pippen received more votes looking for various accolades as he was consistently healthy and played full seasons. You have to take that into consideration if you're going to look at voting. But that doesn't automatically mean he was the better player.

[Shooter]

The Bulls barely beat the Knicks WITH Jordan. Now you're saying they shouldve beat their biggest competitors at the time without their best player? And I'm sure if I put let's say Latrell Sprewell or Hersey Hawkins on the 94 Bulls, then you'd say theh dont get any further because you want to protect Michael Jordan's legacy. The fact that they took the Knicks to 7 hard fought games, and one being lost in a controversial manner says a lot.


I watched that series. And I didn't come away thinking Penny outplayed Pip much less dominated him. And while I agree Jordan obviously checked Penny at times, Pippen was the main guy. Theres a website that was made to actually prop up MJ that even said Pippen guarded Penny most of time in 96. The website was made to squash the argument that Pippen always guarded the opposition's best scorer.



Look where they finished in MVP, All-NBA, DPOY, and All-Defense teams bro. Go back and read this thread. Roundball Rock plainly lays out why Pip was so highly regarded by his peers from 94-96. Even in the video, Max Kellerman called Pippen the 2nd best player after Olajuwan. And hes no Pippen fan.

Fellow Jordan stains, read the above from a legitimate Bulls fan.

Class is in session.