How do you go about ranking Kobe Bryant?

[rmt]

Or maybe he is not German. :-)
For a really really long time my all-time favorite tennis player was Becker. He was the one that touched me in my childhood. Was he better than Sampras or Agassi? I don't think so in retrospect.

I feel the same way about Federer (such a beautiful game). Djokovic's record has way surpassed Fed's (although that weeks at #1 is extended due to covid), but Fed will always be my fav.

[elementally morale]

I don't know how you can say that. Kobe vs the Pistons was historically bad. 22.6 ppg on 45.6 TS% is horrific no matter how you slice it.

I agree it was plenty of bad decision making, but the one game they did win was in large part due to Kobe. At the time it happened it seemed to me the whole team was subpar. Watching the games I didn't have the feeling Shaq would deliver. Those Pistons were good and played out of their minds and the Lakers just didn't have the answers. I do understand if someone saw it differently. Even if you did, that's one year. And it's not like 'he was garbage' all year. He had a bad Finals. (How bad is subject to interpretation.) It happened to others in history. LeBron had a very bad Finals vs. the Mavs. Does that alone define him? ABsolutely not and I don't even like the guy.

[rmt]

rmt is some old woman who doesnt really seem fit for this convo tbh


She doesnt get the finer things of the game at all. Dirk is a testament to that. Hes like an IQ test.

True, I am an old woman :-) But who are you to determine whether I get a say in this conversation or not? I did see the entirety of Dirk's career especially the SW division battles vs Spurs - he was so touched (tears) by the video they did in his retirement game with them.

[Phoenix]

Or maybe he is not German. :-)
For a really really long time my all-time favorite tennis player was Becker. He was the one that touched me in my childhood. Was he better than Sampras or Agassi? I don't think so in retrospect.

Becker was my guy too. First ever tennis match I watched in entirety( or in general IIRC) was Becker-Edberg Wimbledon 89.

[1987_Lakers]

I agree it was plenty of bad decision making, but the one game they did win was in large part due to Kobe. At the time it happened it seemed to me the whole team was subpar. Watching the games I didn't have the feeling Shaq would deliver. Those Pistons were good and played out of their minds and the Lakers just didn't have the answers. I do understand if someone saw it differently. Even if you did, that's one year. And it's not like 'he was garbage' all year. He had a bad Finals. (How bad is subject to interpretation.) It happened to others in history. LeBron had a very bad Finals vs. the Mavs. Does that alone define him? ABsolutely not and I don't even like the guy.

He wasn't garbage all year, but I remember his '04 & '05 seasons being pretty supbar for his standards considering he was pretty much unstoppable in '03. He had to go to court alot during the '04 season with the rape stuff, so I'm sure that affected him.

[elementally morale]

Becker was my guy too. First ever tennis match I watched in entirety( or in general IIRC) was Becker-Edberg Wimbledon 89.

For me it was Becker's first championship year at Wimbledon. 1985, I think. Not sure. Somewhere there.

[rmt]

Losing to or playing poorly against those Pistons was no shame - they were a defensive juggernaut. Duncan doubted the 2005 Finals the most of all his Finals (probably because of all that defensive attention on him).

[rmt]

For me it was Becker's first championship year at Wimbledon. 1985, I think. Not sure. Somewhere there.

A 17 year old - simply amazing!!! Oh, for the good ole serve and volley days.

[elementally morale]

He wasn't garbage all year, but I remember his '04 & '05 seasons being pretty supbar for his standards considering he was pretty much unstoppable in '03. He had to go to court alot during the '04 season with the rape stuff, so I'm sure that affected him.

Again, I agree. But it is something that happens to others. Nash is a very good example. He was a lot better in 2006-8 than the years before. Part of that was his 'own team' and the D'Antoni system but not all of it. He was surprisingly good all of a sudden. Dirk in 2010 and 2011, same thing. And not long before his ring he lost to GS in... well... bad fashion. LeBron is a another player who sort of reinvented himself lately. Yes, 2005 wasn't Kobe's year. Neither was 2004. But it isn't something that should define him. He did overcome all that. If anything, this should be a big plus on everyone's resume. Handling adversity.

[Phoenix]

For me it was Becker's first championship year at Wimbledon. 1985, I think. Not sure. Somewhere there.

Without googling, think it was Becker in 85, Pat Cash 86, Becker 87, Edberg 88. Edit: Edberg came back in 90 to avenge his 89 loss to Becker.

[rmt]

Again, I agree. But it is something that happens to others. Nash is a very good example. He was a lot better in 2006-8 than the years before. Part of that was his 'own team' and the D'Antoni system but not all of it. He was surprisingly good all of a sudden. Dirk in 2010 and 2011, same thing. And not long before his ring he lost to GS in... well... bad fashion. LeBron is a another player who sort of reinvented himself lately. Yes, 2005 wasn't Kobe's year. Neither was 2004. But it isn't something that should define him. He did overcome all that. If anything, this should be a big plus on everyone's resume. Handling adversity.

It's a shame that NBA gave Dirk his MVP award so late (after the loss to GS)- - seeing his look at the trophy so bittersweet - an outstanding year followed by early playoff loss. That GSW crowd was SO LOUD.

[tontoz]

Or maybe he is not German. :-)
For a really really long time my all-time favorite tennis player was Becker. He was the one that touched me in my childhood. Was he better than Sampras or Agassi? I don't think so in retrospect.

Funny story about Becker. Agassi picked up a tell on his serve. Becker used to stick his tongue out when he served, and he would stick it out in the direction he was serving. Agassi noticed this and was able to anticipate his serve for years.

It drove Becker nuts. He even complained to his wife that it was like Agassi was reading his mind. Then one day long after they had retired Agassi finally told him.

[tpols]

It's a shame that NBA gave Dirk his MVP award so late (after the loss to GS)- - seeing his look at the trophy so bittersweet - an outstanding year followed by early playoff loss. That GSW crowd was SO LOUD.

Dirk did beat Duncan H2H with less help at their peaks in the playoffs. Unless you think Josh Howard and Jason Terry are better than Manu and Tony Parker.



The truth is there's not much separating the top players, but Kobes work ethic and psychopathic basketball drive were gonna take him to rings no matter where he went.

I remember somebody said if he got drafted to Charlotte he'd never win. Charlotte was a 50+ win playoff team starting in 1998 in a weak East. So he definitely could've won.

People said he'd never win without Shaq. Then he won twice with him. Then they said he'd never win without the Pau trade but they gave up Marc Gasol for Pau and he ended up being just as good if not better because of his defense.

And if Kobe won with Marc/Odom/Bynum we'd hear the same thing... he was carried by his big men. Kobe would basically have to win 1v5 to get any credit.

[ShawkFactory]

Dirk did beat Duncan H2H with less help at their peaks in the playoffs. Unless you think Josh Howard and Jason Terry are better than Manu and Tony Parker.



The truth is there's not much separating the top players, but Kobes work ethic and psychopathic basketball drive were gonna take him to rings no matter where he went.

I remember somebody said if he got drafted to Charlotte he'd never win. Charlotte was a 50+ win playoff team starting in 1998 in a weak East. So he definitely could've won.

People said he'd never win without Shaq. Then he won twice with him. Then they said he'd never win without the Pau trade but they gave up Marc Gasol for Pau and he ended up being just as good if not better because of his defense.

And if Kobe won with Marc/Odom/Bynum we'd hear the same thing... he was carried by his big men. Kobe would basically have to win 1v5 to get any credit.

Why do you do this? There are times when you genuinely seem interested in discussing the nuances of the game but then you go back to simple arithmetic when it suits.

[tpols]

Why do you do this? There are times when you genuinely seem interested in discussing the nuances of the game but then you go back to simple arithmetic when it suits.

I literally didn't use any arithmetic whatsoever in that whole post. Just words. You've lost the plot yet again mate.