Peak Jokic vs Peak Curry

[FultzNationRISE]

Anyone watching the Wolves- Nuggets series realizes that Jokic ran out of gas. I've said this before, there are great players in the league that do not put in the work in the gym and it costs them- Kevin Durant, Nowitzki. Curry fit this bill for many years but he bulked up and took his condition to the top. You need to set the standard for the team. If you look at players like LeBron, Jordan, and now Curry- they do the work off the court. It matters in terms of all time greatness. You can't serve your team when you are lumbering around in Q4 hardly playing D.

^ This guy doesnt understand body types.


“Those Kenyans keep winning marathons because theyre the only ones who work out! It’s that simple!”

[hold this L]

He's not a good defender, but he's not Kanter either so he still likely has more impact on that end than a point guard who's not stellar. I'd take Curry overall though because I don't think the defensive edge for Jokic is enough to make up the offensive gap. As good as Jokic is on offense, I've never seen anyone warp a game on offense like Curry. Curry would be the GOAT if guys like LeBron, Kareem and MJ weren't so impactful on defense.

It's much worse for a team to have a player be worse defensively at the 5 than the 1. Jokic is not on Curry's level offensively. He's insanely efficient, but I haven't seen teams dare a guy to shoot in a game 7 from distance like him from any ATG offensive hubs. Maybe Lebron early in his career, but now the asshole turned into a shooter.

[Mask the Embiid]

Joker, easy. I love Steph Curry, but he has a lot of issues in the playoffs. Joker otoh, rises to the occasion when you need him most. The only players who have been able to consistently do that in the playoffs have been Jordan, Lebron, Kawhi and Big Honey; very short list.

[RRR3]

It's much worse for a team to have a player be worse defensively at the 5 than the 1. Jokic is not on Curry's level offensively. He's insanely efficient, but I haven't seen teams dare a guy to shoot in a game 7 from distance like him from any ATG offensive hubs. Maybe Lebron early in his career, but now the asshole turned into a shooter.

Yes it's easier to get away with mediocre defenders at the 1 spot no doubt. Because centers are the most important member of your defense. As a LeBron fan his shooting is pretty random year to year. He could easily go back to being a brick next year and then shoot 40% from 3 the year after that.

[Axe]

I'd honestly disagree with that, the Suns & Lakers are pretty clearly > the Grizz & Mavs, esp with Ja missing half the series. They did have a tougher Finals matchup, though Tatum & Butler were both pretty ass in those series.

It's an interesting comparison. Just took a look at the denver title run last year and realized that they faced sub-50 win teams throughout the playoffs, if that could imply anything. But two years ago saw GS facing more shorthanded teams (mpj & murray for denver, morant for memphis and tatum with undisclosed wrist injury for boston) en route to their fourth title under the dynasty.

[Hey Yo]

Curry is a top 10 player all time ~ 4 rings all with superstar production, GOAT season, only UMVP in history, etc.

[Hey Yo]

It's much worse for a team to have a player be worse defensively at the 5 than the 1. Jokic is not on Curry's level offensively. He's insanely efficient, but I haven't seen teams dare a guy to shoot in a game 7 from distance like him from any ATG offensive hubs. Maybe Lebron early in his career, but now the asshole turned into a shooter.

Huh? What does Curry do offensively (besides run a round off of screens) that makes him so much better?

Jokic is very confident shooting anywhere from 27ft or closer and has a MUCH better midrange game than Curry. Plus Curry doesn't come close to Joker's offensive rebounding capabilities.

[warriorfan]

Huh? What does Curry do offensively (besides run a round off of screens) that makes him so much better?

Jokic is very confident shooting anywhere from 27ft or closer and has a MUCH better midrange game than Curry. Plus Curry doesn't come close to Joker's offensive rebounding capabilities.

Spaces the floor better than anyone to ever play the game

Let me know when Jokic is drawing double teams 30+ feet away from the hoop

[hold this L]

Huh? What does Curry do offensively (besides run a round off of screens) that makes him so much better?

Jokic is very confident shooting anywhere from 27ft or closer and has a MUCH better midrange game than Curry. Plus Curry doesn't come close to Joker's offensive rebounding capabilities.

Jokic was treated like Draymond Green at the 3 point line at a home in a game 7, and he completely failed. Anyone that gets disrepected offensively like that is not in any conversation for GOAT offensive player. Steph being a danger from so far out breaks the defensive line entirely (teams have to move up, adding more space to the other four teammates), add being the best off ball player of all time and it breaks the defensive line. You're devaluing the off ball here. Draymond without that is a a 15MPG defensive energy guy, add that level of elite off ball play and you have one of the more impactful players during several PS series or a few regular seasons. Draymond would be a complete failure offensively if he lined up with Joker.

[Nb1]

Only 70% for Jokic??? Who are the few retarded ones picking Steph

Ask 1000 coach's out there and 1000 would pick Jokic, not only is he better in every single area than Steph other than 3pt shot, but he's also so much bigger and impossible to guard, Steph gets clamped by Matthew Dellavedova this shouldn't even be up for debate lol.

[j3lademaster]

Jokic was treated like Draymond Green at the 3 point line at a home in a game 7, and he completely failed. Anyone that gets disrepected offensively like that is not in any conversation for GOAT offensive player. Steph being a danger from so far out breaks the defensive line entirely (teams have to move up, adding more space to the other four teammates), add being the best off ball player of all time and it breaks the defensive line. You're devaluing the off ball here. Draymond without that is a a 15MPG defensive energy guy, add that level of elite off ball play and you have one of the more impactful players during several PS series or a few regular seasons. Draymond would be a complete failure offensively if he lined up with Joker.

You probably want to stay away from big game performance talk if you're trying to debate pro Curry or pro Kobe. Curry in particular is incredibly unclutch. Like, historically bad in the clutch.



And this is coming from someone who has Curry as my favorite current player. I've argued time and time again Draymond would be akin to what you said- a 15 min energy guy off the bench- without him. He doesn't rebound well enough to be your center(KD era is a bad example because that's not a typical team). I've even argued I would consider taking Curry first if we're discussing all time teams because he's that rare all time superstar who doesn't need plays ran for him and has zero ego as far as letting his teammates cook, evident in how he took a backseat to KD and willingly came off the bench for meme player Jordan Poole because Poole was on a hot streak and Steph unselfishly wanted to help foster the kid's confidence. Trust me, I understand Curry's intangibles even BEYOND his offball play, which is second to none. But if we're building a team with salary caps and all, Jokic is easier to build around because he's almost impossible to force a bad game out of. Historically impossible, almost on Lebron's levels. Curry, KD, Kobe, all those guys are all time greats but all of them have let great defenses force them into uncomfortable shots and had poor series' off of them. Shaq, Jokic and Lebron- while they have had stinkers and have been bothered by defenses, is MUCH less susceptible to having a bad series than virtually any other peak in history. Look at the great Bird's playoff failures, and he's seen as some consistent clutch god. Everyone has playoff failures, Jokic's 'Tragic Johnson' moment is when he 'failed' with 29/11/8 on 61% ts for the series while averaging UNDER 3 SECONDS PER TOUCH(did his damage within optimal ball movement and flow of the game) when he 'only' did 34/19/7 on 46%(ok, that's terrible for a center) facing elimination. Against a team that's built to stop him by the previous Denver gm. If this is his floor, he's undoubtedly all time great.

And no, they didn't leave him like Draymond. Jokic is so good at creating you live with giving him space for the 3, Draymond's spacing is completely created for him by Steph- not respect for any other aspect of Green's game.

[Hey Yo]

Spaces the floor better than anyone to ever play the game

Let me know when Jokic is drawing double teams 30+ feet away from the hoop

Lemme know when Steph can convert middy's over double coverage.

[Hey Yo]

Jokic was treated like Draymond Green at the 3 point line at a home in a game 7, and he completely failed. Anyone that gets disrepected offensively like that is not in any conversation for GOAT offensive player. Steph being a danger from so far out breaks the defensive line entirely (teams have to move up, adding more space to the other four teammates), add being the best off ball player of all time and it breaks the defensive line. You're devaluing the off ball here. Draymond without that is a a 15MPG defensive energy guy, add that level of elite off ball play and you have one of the more impactful players during several PS series or a few regular seasons. Draymond would be a complete failure offensively if he lined up with Joker.

Your comparison is based on 1 game. Joker's 3pt shot is respected by defenses around the league. With Denver having better options to take the 3, of course defenses would rather let him take the 3.

Steph being the much bigger threat from 3 is exactly more Joker is a threat inside the line and on the offensive glass. This while not even bringing up his passing advantage.

When Steph's 3 isn't falling, it's hard for him to impact the offense. The same can't be said about Jokic.

[warriorfan]

Lemme know when Steph can convert middy's over double coverage.

doesn’t create more offense then steph curry’s spacing

[Hey Yo]

doesn’t create more offense then steph curry’s spacing

Converting offense without needing necessary spacing >>>>>