Why hasn't Philly measurably improved post-Ben Simmons?

[Wardell Curry]

I think the argument was IF Ben could shoot Philly would be measurably better. Not if they replaced him.

If Ben Simmons could shoot and had confidence he'd be the clear cut league MVP. If's are jerkoffs when it comes to the characteristics of athletes.

[beasted]

The Warriors won a championship playing 3v5 on offense. Nobody had to guard Dray or Looney and Dray especially shot way worse than Ben Simmons.

You can't realistically think that Ben is better at sticking to a role than Draymond, can you? Draymond categorically fit into the scheme of what the Warriors wanted to do. Simmons on the other hand drove a wedge in everything the 76ers wanted to do with Embiid in the high post, instead turning him into a 3PT shooter.

Aside from this Draymond provided leadership while Simmons was an outcast who got along with very few of his teammates.

[iamgine]

If Ben Simmons could shoot and had confidence he'd be the clear cut league MVP. If's are jerkoffs when it comes to the characteristics of athletes.

I don't think so. We're not talking JJ Redick level shooting. Maybe more Bruce Brown level.

[tpols]

I watched every second of every game in that series very intently and was thanking god that Ben Simmons was doing what he did. They counted on him and he absolutely did not deliver like he should have.

Not only was he not shooting, but because he was so putrid from the line he wasn't attacking in any way at all. Dude was passing up layups if anyone was near him because he was scared of getting fouled. This was particularly apparent in 4th quarters, as I've already mentioned. He was a complete liability and a big reason why the Hawks won.

It makes sense that he was avoiding the foul line shooting only 30% from it. Despite that he had a 114 ORTG which was the highest on the team outside Curry. Mostly because of his passing and playmaking. 60 dimes and 16 TOVs as full time point guard. Embiid had 27 assist and 33 TOVs... a putrid negative differential compared to Ben.

And again this was with him expending energy guarding by far the best player on the opposing team as a 6'10 big man. Trae only shot 43%. That's insane defensive versatility.

In Game 7, Embiid had 3 dimes and 8 TOVs. Simmons had 13 assists and 2 TOVs while having the ball in his hands even more. He was doing what he had to do and they barely lost the series.

It's just hypocritical because a guy like Dray can win the championship and get praise for his 6 ppg on 33% shooting but Simmons gets roasted and blackballed for 10 ppg on 60% shooting. Neither player is guarded. I watch defenders sag 15 feet off Dray and leave him wide open all the time. We all do in fact.

[ShawkFactory]

It makes sense that he was avoiding the foul line shooting only 30% from it. Despite that he had a 114 ORTG which was the highest on the team outside Curry. Mostly because of his passing and playmaking. 60 dimes and 16 TOVs as full time point guard. Embiid had 27 assist and 33 TOVs... a putrid negative differential compared to Ben.

And again this was with him expending energy guarding by far the best player on the opposing team as a 6'10 big man. Trae only shot 43%. That's insane defensive versatility.

In Game 7, Embiid had 3 dimes and 8 TOVs. Simmons had 13 assists and 2 TOVs while having the ball in his hands even more. He was doing what he had to do and they barely lost the series.

It's just hypocritical because a guy like Dray can win the championship and get praise for his 6 ppg on 33% shooting but Simmons gets roasted and blackballed for 10 ppg on 60% shooting. Neither player is guarded. I watch defenders sag 15 feet off Dray and leave him wide open all the time. We all do in fact.

How is it hypocritical? You're missing a lot of nuance by only using the numbers and completely disregarding their particular circumstances. Dray, while having an off-shooting series, was still Dray. He played like Dray and brought the same level of intensity always. Basically he always played his role and if he's going to miss some open 3's then whatever. It's a small sample and he still did what he was supposed to do.

Ben Simmons played differently in the second half of that series against the Hawks, and it completely discombobulated the team. His timidness in general was palpable and allowed the Hawks to gain the upper hand mentally as well. That on top of him being no leader off the court is what led to where he is now.

[Kblaze8855]

I’ll say the same thing I said then. He just gets replaced by somebody who can shoot and the team is almost certain to lose anyway and people just find a new individual reason it’s happening. Some guard or wing with a broke jumper or generally not scoring is easy to scapegoat. People love to feel smart, acting like they know why teams lose. Most teams are gonna lose all the time. All but one great team is going to lose every year. There is never one reason. But a bad shooter is often the easiest for a casual fan to point to as the problem.

[Im Still Ballin]

I think the argument was IF Ben could shoot Philly would be measurably better. Not if they replaced him.

I do remember plenty of people suggesting that they'd be way better if they could replace him with a high-level perimeter creator who could shoot. And they got two of them (Harden + Maxey) and they didn't get measurably better.

Of course I remember.

Simmons wasn't shooting? Uh... why would you want him to? He was an elite passer, playmaker and defender. Rodman didn't shoot despite not being guarded. Nobody cared about that. Dray mostly didn't shoot without being guarded and when he reluctantly did it was a brick. Nobody cared about that. But Ben not shooting is some major problem?

Simmons as a 6'10 big man took on the challenge to guard Trae Young full time since Seth Curry couldn't, and he averaged almost double digit dimes. That's exactly what Dray does except Dray shot far worse and averaged less points.

The double standards are funny.

It does seem strange to grade Simmons so heavily on scoring when scoring has never been his strength. He was a 6'10", 240-pound young Jason Kidd with even worse shooting. Not someone I'm expecting to rely on as a scorer.

[RRR3]

The criticism wasn't that Ben was a bad shooter it was that he wouldn't try. If Ben shot 3s and hit them at even like 33% he would have been way better.

[tpols]

The criticism wasn't that Ben was a bad shooter it was that he wouldn't try. If Ben shot 3s and hit them at even like 33% he would have been way better.

What about if he hit them at 12.5% like Dray did in the 2022 Finals?

[RRR3]

You'd think a Kobe fan would appreciate trying to shoot rather than refusing to do so

[tpols]

It's just dumb to even suggest. Would you want westbrook jacking more 3s too? 33% is a pipe dream. Even wide open. He played to his strengths and got blackballed for it.

[Im Still Ballin]

At a certain point, you have to accept and evaluate a player for what they are, not what you want them to be. At five years in from getting drafted, I think it was safe to say he wasn't becoming a shooter. And that's absolutely fine. Because Ben was still a very impactful player.

His potential wasn't the next LeBron or Magic. It was a 6'10", 240-pound young Jason Kidd with worse shooting but better finishing in the paint due to his size. And that's a great talent.

On a team more built/optimal for his game he could've done some impressive stuff. And he was a 3x All-Star, two-time All-Defense 1st team, one-time All-NBA third team, DPOY runner-up guy in Philly. In his first four years in the NBA.

Ben putting up Charles Barkley numbers from three wouldn't have made a difference. Would've only hurt his team.

[RRR3]

It's just dumb to even suggest. Would you want westbrook jacking more 3s too? 33% is a pipe dream. Even wide open. He played to his strengths and got blackballed for it.

Difference between jacking them and taking the occasional open 3. Ben never even tried how do you know how good or bad he would have been? People wanted to see him try lol. Ben was a good player but you'd like to see a guy at least try shooting 3s

[ShawkFactory]

I’ll say the same thing I said then. He just gets replaced by somebody who can shoot and the team is almost certain to lose anyway and people just find a new individual reason it’s happening. Some guard or wing with a broke jumper or generally not scoring is easy to scapegoat. People love to feel smart, acting like they know why teams lose. Most teams are gonna lose all the time. All but one great team is going to lose every year. There is never one reason. But a bad shooter is often the easiest for a casual fan to point to as the problem.

The bad shooting wasn’t the problem.

I’m willing to admit that maybe the expectation was what caused the downfall but that was the series we realized he wasn’t what we thought we was overall. And more importantly he wasn’t what the sixers thought he was. He clammed up and it got weird.

Still could have been a valuable player but he was built up to be something else.

[Phoenix]

The Sixers will tangibly improve when Joel Embiid can translate his regular season dominance to the playoffs.