MJ dunks over Hakeem

[warriorfan]

Muster against what?

The same per list that had David Lee ahead of prime Kobe in 2010? If not for being the third option on the Heat there would be no more reason to talk about him than a good 2 dozen random 20-25 ppg bigs over the years.

Perfectly good player. Great even. But nothing to be talked about 15 years later. He was basically Jermaine O’Neal. Fans were torn at the time actually




Them ended up on the same team and my confidence they would do absolutely nothing together had Raptor fans on my ass for a while there.

Hes in a group with….

Mcdyess
Randle
Aldridge
Antawn Jamison
Juwon Howard
Zach Randolph
Larry Johnson
Boozer
Rasheed
Jermaine Oneal
Vin Baker


Somewhere in there just north of the Luis Scola, David West, and Paul Millsap level.

You can argue he’s trending towards the top of that list with guys like Pau, Shawn Kemp, and Kevin Love where we could argue you need another really small list but we aren’t talking about a whole other level.

Were talking about upper middle class stardom.

Definite star by regular player standards. But among the stars?

We talking more Allan Houston than Ray Allen. I don’t think Bosh quite crosses that line between being a regular star player and somebody to talk about for 20 years. He isn’t one of the best ever at anything that would bring him into long-term discussion.

Hes not gonna get all time rebound talk like Rodman. Hes not on a defensive goat short list or in talks for the all time all D team like a Pippen. You could actually say Love was closer to those talks for a minute. Hes exactly the type who would retire and have you not sure if he’s still playing or not like Lamarcus Aldridge. Except Aldridge made like 5 more all nba teams.

Nothing to reflect back on when you tell your kids about the game. If you have some true sickos like I was who ask about the best faceup bigs of an era? Ok.

That aside?

Toronto Bosh vanishes into history like Terry Cummings.

Stop it

You are going full clown mode.

No one gives a damn about this irreverent straw man of “If Chris Bosh didn’t play with Lebron there is a chance casual fans might not then remember who he was today!”





People fading chris bosh look real loony.

[Kblaze8855]

Stop it

You are going full clown mode.






People fading chris bosh look real looney.

18 years of the same opinion about Bosh many of them still here to find(from what I can find I bailed in 2006). You have admitted everything you say is colored by where you stand in other arguments So I can only imagine what your true feelings were.

Chris Boshs Toronto career is already all but forgotten and he followed it up by being on the most high profile team of the last 20 years years Instead of doing more nothing for the five years he had left.

There was nothing he could do in Toronto and the five years before his condition ended his career to be particularly remembered. Real LaMarcus Aldridge shit. He’s managed to already fade away, despite being on the heat and winning, which is saying something.

That said I will put him second behind Gasol but ahead of Love.

Bosh played the right way. Did what winning took and didn’t bitch. Played defense when that was his role.

I can respect that much more than Love behavior wise. Bosh seems like a good teammate to me

[warriorfan]

18 years of the same opinion about Bosh many of them still here to find(from what I can find I bailed in 2006). You have admitted everything you say is colored by where you stand in other arguments So I can only imagine what your true feelings were.

Chris Boshs Toronto career is already all but forgotten and he followed it up by being on the most high profile team of the last 20 years years Instead of doing more nothing for the five years he had left.

There was nothing he could do in Toronto and the five years before his condition ended his career to be particularly remembered. Real LaMarcus Aldridge shit. He’s managed to already fade away, despite being on the heat and winning, which is saying something.

That said I will put him second behind Gasol but ahead of Love.

Bosh played the right way. Did what winning took and didn’t bitch. Played defense when that was his role.

I can respect that much more than Love behavior wise. Bosh seems like a good teammate to me

Because some casual fan dipshits who don’t know ball are ignorant doesn’t about Chris Bosh….that doesn’t make him any worse of a basketball player.

[Kblaze8855]

Of course not. He just wasn’t an elite one. And a great many people we have record of not thinking he was suddenly decided otherwise in retrospect because they need him to be elite to use as a weapon in a dumb fight.

He was Bucks Baker. Nugget Mcdyess. Blazers Aldridge. Which is fine.

[tpols]

Yes Bosh was a better pure shooter. If he came along today he’d have made far more threes I’m sure.

Chris Boshs most efficient season ever was in 2006 when he made zero 3pters on the entire season. His 2nd and 3rd most efficient seasons ever were in 2008 and 2010 when he barely took them as well. Post 2013 he started launching them and he was never as efficient scoring as he was on the Raptors and thats despite facing more defensive attention with Toronto than with playing alongside Lebron and Wade.

A lot of the kiddies today think chucking 3s is the only way to efficiently score. For role players that is true. Because they don't have any 2pt mastery skillset. Bosh actually did have that. He produced on 118 ORTG with the Raptors with 0 3pt makes in 2006. That's shows extreme 2pt skillset competency. He never approached that efficiency with Miami when he was just chucking 10x more 3pt shots.

[tpols]

Stop it

You are going full clown mode.

No one gives a damn about this irreverent straw man of “If Chris Bosh didn’t play with Lebron there is a chance casual fans might not then remember who he was today!”





People fading chris bosh look real loony.

It's really crazy because we could say the same thing about Pippen if he didn't play with MJ and was stuck on some bum lotto franchise like the mid 2000s Raptors.

Scottie wouldn't have half the accolades or esteem if he was on a terrible team which gives serious credence to the winning spotlight theory.

[ILLsmak]

To be fair, surely there was a reason bosh was the third big three member, right? There had to be other options.

Arguing about bosh after mj dunks on hakeem, 3ball is rubbing his hands together.

-Smak

[Kblaze8855]

It's really crazy because we could say the same thing about Pippen if he didn't play with MJ and was stuck on some bum lotto franchise like the mid 2000s Raptors.

Scottie wouldn't have half the accolades or esteem if he was on a terrible team which gives serious credence to the winning spotlight theory.

what’s crazy to me is I didn’t say if he didn’t play with LeBron nobody would remember him now. And the reason I wouldn’t say that is because he did play on the heat and he is already being forgotten anyway. Chris Bosh isnt some unknown commodity. He was on the most high profile team of his era. People just don’t care. I think Draymond is going to be that way. Robert Parish is that guy for birds Celtics. Glenn Rice for that first Laker championship.

I don’t know if he’s gonna have the lasting power of James worthy.

[tpols]

The difference between Bosh and guys like Dray or Parish is Bosh proved himself outside of a dynasty system. All NBA team member, multiple time All Star, led bum teams to playoff berths... etc.

I seriously doubt Parish or Dray ever do any of that on those lotto Toronto teams. Dray especially. But Parish too was kind of a stiff player to ever take a No. 1 scoring option role. Some guys just benefitted more from the winning spotlight. Chris Bosh wasn't really one of them. Miami made him look bad actually. Worse than what he was capable of.

[Carbine]

Why didn't Bosh make any all NBA teams under the "winning spotlight" theory?

Why didn't he make any all NBA defensive teams?

The winning spotlight didn't give him any accolades or high praise that otherwise would not have been given.

Scottie on a bad team is still an all star. He's still getting all NBA selections. Don't believe me? Just ask Bird. I think he knows a thing or two about talent. He coached against Pippen.

"Pippen with Jordan is the second best player in the league. Without him he's probably fourth"

If you're a top 5 player in the league that just happens to be stuck in a shitty team for years and years you still get a lot of attention. Garnett was stuck in Minnesota and still came away with a shit load of accolades.

[tpols]

That actually makes your argument even worse the fact that Bosh made All NBA on a team where he had no star help but didn't on Miami. That proves his talent in a pure vacuum was legit.

Like I said before the Heat marginalized him. And everybody saw it. They turned an extremely skilled midrange scorer into a chucking spot up 3pt shooter. This isn't anything new.

[3ba11]

Lebron's cast has done things that are objectively superior to Jordan's cast, such as making All-NBA before joining him and before the winning spotlight of titles (Love, Bosh, Wade), or making the Finals without him (Kyrie, Wade), or outplaying goat players like Dirk, Curry, young MJ and Jokic (Wade, Kyrie, AD).

Jordan's cast was never on this level because Jordan won with normal, "organic" casts of 1 franchise player (1 player that was asked to build something from scratch), while Lebron needed better rosters of 3 franchise players (super-team).

Despite teaming up with opposing franchise players, the "bron-ball" brand of ball mostly lost with every cast and consistently underachieved favored talent (lost with preseason favorite, or fell to underdog).

[ShawkFactory]

Bosh's great PNR defense got no credit on the Heat except among people in the know!

Not even remotely true. That was always a topic of conversation.

He improved as a defender and overall basketball player with the Heat.

[SouBeachTalents]

I love how Bosh didn't make as much as an All-NBA 3rd Team in 12 of his 13 seasons in the league, and tpols will continue to pretend that one outlier of a year he made it was the norm for him, not the exception. It's just so ridiculously disingenuous

[3ba11]

Not even remotely true. That was always a topic of conversation.

He improved as a defender and overall basketball player with the Heat.

Yeah, and that tangible credit that Bosh got for his ground-breaking PNR defense (which allowed the ground-breaking "small-ball" to even be possible) would be MORE THAN ENOUGH to get him all-defense alongside the goat and unprecedented winning spotlight of the 90's Bulls... Pippen was given All-defense for less tangible things..

So Bosh would be all-defense virtually every year, especially with MJ hogging up all the offensive spotlight - that's how the media handled such a dominant offensive player - they simply inflated the defense of everyone else so they could fill shows and have something to talk about aside from the GOAT all the time.. Bosh would benefit from this defensive inflation just like Pippen, except it wouldn't be inflation for Bosh since he actually has TANGIBLE defensive value that anyone can articulate - he made small-ball possible by showing all bigs in today's game how to play PNR defense...

So it's a travesty that Bosh didn't get all-defense and it's all due to the Klutch agenda to diminish Bron's teammates and inflate Lebron to create the current fake debate and perpetuate the fraud further.