23-year old KD was on pace for GOAT but Lebron's decision stole his organic chip

[ImKobe]

Well no obviously if they’re all 3 on the same team then all 3 aren’t winning MVPs lol. That’s not how hierarchy works.

The point is that there were 3 MVP talents. Literally.

If anything I feel like it proved that having that many guys has diminishing returns.

Or that they actually needed each other. Aside from KD's GS years none of the 3 were on teams that had a better chance of winning the title than they did in 2012 really. Look at the lack of spacing in OKC from 2014-16 now imagine Harden on those teams.. they were close to getting there in '14 & '16 with no shooters around Durant. Thunder FO fumbled a potential dynasty.

Harden left because he wanted a bigger role and more money than OKC was willing to give him. Unless winning a title shifts management's perspective on how much to pay him and/or Harden willingly stays in a lesser role and less money to remain with a champion, I don't think this is the likely outcome. If anything winning a title, albeit in a supporting role, may have been even more incentive to see what his value would be on the market and wanting to be the man elsewhere. 'I'm the 6th man on a championship team, pay me!'.

Harden would've still been in OKC in 2013 if the Thunder didn't value Perkins as much as they did at the time. They traded him because they were too cheap to pay him and undervalued him. Obviously he wanted a bigger role but you make Russ and KD sacrifice a little for a better chance at a title and I think they figure that part out like Brooklyn did with the KD-Harden-Kyrie trio before injuries and COVID tore that team apart.

"My fourth year, it's on. Summertime, traded. A couple days before the first game," Harden said. "Two chips at least at the minimum... It was over four million dollars."

The actual number was 4.5 million. OKC straight up fumbled and that's without knowing how great Harden would end up being.

[Phoenix]

Harden would've still been in OKC in 2013 if the Thunder didn't value Perkins as much as they did at the time. They traded him because they were too cheap to pay him and undervalued him. Obviously he wanted a bigger role but you make Russ and KD sacrifice a little for a better chance at a title and I think they figure that part out like Brooklyn did with the KD-Harden-Kyrie trio before injuries and COVID tore that team apart.



The actual number was 4.5 million. OKC straight up fumbled and that's without knowing how great Harden would end up being.

The player you're 'making' sacrifice based on their role and style of play is 24 year old Russ, the same one who often made boneheaded late game decisions calling his own number over KD's. Durant's game and personality would have fit Harden into a bigger role fine, but that's a big ask of Westbrook. For all his flaws as a PG, at his best his effectiveness required that he control the ball and pace, and you're asking him to sacrifice that to satisfy Harden, who would have needed the ball in his hands as well to be effective. I mean there had to be efforts to 'make' Russ play a certain way before KD bounced.

I guess there's some best case scenario where that works out if you ignore the tendencies we saw from the players involved, but there's also the real possibility that young egos, clashing play-styles and personalities crash the entire thing. Like anything else, one will believe whatever concocted scenario fits into their argument.

[Meticode]

KD was on pace for GOAT

[ImKobe]

The player you're 'making' sacrifice based on their role and style of play is 24 year old Russ, the same one who often made boneheaded late game decisions calling his own number over KD's. Durant's game and personality would have fit Harden into a bigger role fine, but that's a big ask of Westbrook. For all his flaws as a PG, at his best his effectiveness required that he control the ball and pace, and you're asking him to sacrifice that to satisfy Harden, who would have needed the ball in his hands as well to be effective. I mean there had to be efforts to 'make' Russ play a certain way before KD bounced.

I guess there's some best case scenario where that works out if you ignore the tendencies we saw from the players involved, but there's also the real possibility that young egos, clashing play-styles and personalities crash the entire thing. Like anything else, one will believe whatever concocted scenario fits into their argument.

There definitely is a scenario where they figure it out. They didn't even have the chance to get to that point because the FO was cheap. You don't blow that core up over 4.5 million when you're coming off a Finals run. Look at how bad the scoring options were around Russ & KD in 2014 & 2016 when they lost in the WCF.

[Phoenix]

There definitely is a scenario where they figure it out. They didn't even have the chance to get to that point because the FO was cheap. You don't blow that core up over 4.5 million when you're coming off a Finals run. Look at how bad the scoring options were around Russ & KD in 2014 & 2016 when they lost in the WCF.

Sure there is, and there's definitely a scenario where they don't, which is my point and once again, which side of the line you'll fall depends on what argument you are pushing. You say you don't blow up a finals team over 4.5 million but that's what happened. You're pushing the idea that a 2012 title would have put KD onto a GOAT trajectory in line with what 3ball is saying. That's not a talking point I really feel strongly about one way or another to contest, but your complimenting points including the idea that they 'figure it out' and keep the team intact naturally has to fall in line with your core argument. It may be less about the teams willingness to spend the extra money and how much sacrifice Russ( in particular ) would have to make to accommodate a bigger role for Harden without compromising his own game. You have to realize that those guys teaming up at 30 when they were established MVP players is different from thinking those sacrifices are made and work out for the best when they're young players looking to create their own legacies as much as contribute to a team's success.

It's all highly speculative one way or another and not something needing multiple posts to go on about. Some of these 'what ifs' really amount to 'who cares' when they're un-provable hypotheticals. I know that's kind of what we do in sports, but it gets to a point pretty quickly where it becomes a circular conversation.