+2800 roster and sidekick < Hornacek, so 73 wins means CURRY is goat-like, not lebron

[1987_Lakers]

That doesn't mean shit.

Kobe made All Defensive teams he didn't deserve too especially later in his career. The difference is Kobe was a beast athlete and actually did have defensive metrics to back it up back in early 2000s.

Klay doesn't. His DRTG, DRAPM, any metrics want to use hes never been close to elite. Like... ever. Pull the numbers dude. Because for someone like Dray? We could pull numbers to show hes an elite defender big time. Can't do it for Klay though. Why not?

I wouldn't even call his overall defense elite, if you go to my very first reply on page 1, I said he was an elite man defender then followed it up by saying he wasn't the greatest off-ball and team/help defender which limited his overall defensive impact. I even posted data which supported my man defender claim, but warriorfan is too scared to click because it would destroy his argument. I actually think he already clicked the video and saw it, but doesn't want to admit it because it would confirm everything I said about Klay's defense in this thread was right.



This is the 2017 defense I was talking about in page 1. Elite man defense right there, playing stick glue defense on a prime Kyrie.

[1987_Lakers]

Klay made one defensive second team in his entire career.

One more than Curry.

[warriorfan]

One more than Curry.

Meltdown

[Phoenix]

You all are just talking across yourselves at this point. Klay's probably the best defender( that I've seen anyway) out of anyone who could shoot at this level. He wasn't an elite overall defensive player but he was a more than capable man defender before his injuries. This seems like a fairly understood and commonly held view during the peak of the Warriors run in the mid-late 2010s. In fact, his man to man defensive drop-off was the first observable thing I noticed( not staring at advanced metrics on basketball reference, actually watching him on the floor) after his injuries.

[1987_Lakers]

You all are just talking across yourselves at this point. Klay's probably the best defender( that I've seen anyway) out of anyone who could shoot at this level. He wasn't an elite overall defensive player but he was a more than capable man defender before his injuries. This seems like a fairly understood and commonly held view during the peak of the Warriors run in the mid-late 2010s. In fact, his man to man defensive drop-off was the first observable thing I noticed( not staring at advanced metrics on basketball reference, actually watching him on the floor) after his injuries.

Yup. It was a common fact back in the 2010’s that Klay was one of the better man defenders in the league and some were even calling him the GOAT 3 and D player. Now you have Curry stans and Bron haters trying to re-write history.

Very sad.

[tpols]

Klay didn't shoot as well in the playoffs as you guys think he did. He produced on 56 TS as a 3pt shooter in a video game era. Jeff produced on 57+ TS in a much uglier setting. This is over huge sample size in the playoffs. And Klay saved his worst for last usually as he never had a great Finals.

His slight advantage in man defense doesn't give him an edge over guys who out rebound him, out playmake him, and outshoot him. Like Jeff. But Hornacek isn't half as decorated accolade wise because he never enjoyed the winning spotlight Klay did.

[SouBeachTalents]

Klay didn't shoot as well in the playoffs as you guys think he did. He produced on 56 TS as a 3pt shooter in a video game era. Jeff produced on 57+ TS in a much uglier setting. This is over huge sample size in the playoffs. And Klay saved his worst for last usually as he never had a great Finals.

His slight advantage in man defense doesn't give him an edge over guys who out rebound him, out playmake him, and outshoot him. Like Jeff. But Hornacek isn't half as decorated accolade wise because he never enjoyed the winning spotlight Klay did.

Sounds like Kobe.

If you want to peep bad Finals, don't look at Hornacek's.

[tpols]

Sounds like Kobe.

If you want to peep bad Finals, don't look at Hornacek's.

Hornacek was going up against GOAT Bulls defense as end prime. Klay was in a perfect spot to light Cleveland up... who didn't even have a good defense... average rank. But he shit bed. Fully at his peak.

[Tavr]

I mean, Klay was a pretty good defender but never lockdown or anything. Not sure I would call him "elite" either. His DRAPM splits even during his prime years were barely positive and actually hovered around a net negative. I understand there's regression in defensive rapm, but this is MULTIPLE seasons so its less noisy.

Unlike Draymond, Klay's impact on that end is grossly exaggerated.

[sdot_thadon]

Klay didn't shoot as well in the playoffs as you guys think he did. He produced on 56 TS as a 3pt shooter in a video game era. Jeff produced on 57+ TS in a much uglier setting. This is over huge sample size in the playoffs. And Klay saved his worst for last usually as he never had a great Finals.

His slight advantage in man defense doesn't give him an edge over guys who out rebound him, out playmake him, and outshoot him. Like Jeff. But Hornacek isn't half as decorated accolade wise because he never enjoyed the winning spotlight Klay did.

Slight advantage in man defense is an all defense selection. Thats not slight at all, thats being one of the top defenders in the league for a season. Klay has had 16 30 point games in his playoff career, one 40 point game. Jeff has 6 30 point games in his playoff career. Cmon man this is getting more ridiculous by the second. Winning spotlight my ass. You've further downgraded yourself just repeating that nonsense.

[3ba11]

Slight advantage in man defense is an all defense selection. Thats not slight at all, thats being one of the top defenders in the league for a season. Klay has had 16 30 point games in his playoff career, one 40 point game. Jeff has 6 30 point games in his playoff career. Cmon man this is getting more ridiculous by the second. Winning spotlight my ass. You've further downgraded yourself just repeating that nonsense.

Hornacek destroys Klay in the regular season and playoffs, across the board, and by wide margins - PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP.

Klay's inferiority to Hornacek is why the Warriors had +2800 odds in the 15' preseason and no one thought they had a good roster... So the 67 and 73 wins means that Curry did a goat thing, not Lebron.. Lebron doesn't deserve props for beating a 1-man team with the only "big 3" super-team in the league and the preseason favorite. Lebron shouldn't get credit for beating a 1-man team with the only big 3 super-team in the league and the preseason favorite.

[Lebron23]

Klay Thompson is better than Hornacek. He puts up better numbers as a 3rd option than Hornacek as a 2nd offensive option.

[3ba11]

Klay Thompson is better than Hornacek.

He puts up better numbers

Stahp it



Regular Season

Hornacek'.... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 ts
Klay............ 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 14.4 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 ts


Playoffs

Hornacek'.... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 ts
Klay............ 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.1 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 ts

[Axe]

Stahp it



Regular Season

Hornacek'.... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 ts
Klay............ 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 14.4 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 ts


Playoffs

Hornacek'.... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 ts
Klay............ 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.1 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 ts

[1987_Lakers]

Klay Thompson is better than Hornacek. He puts up better numbers as a 3rd option than Hornacek as a 2nd offensive option.

This