You know I used to have Bird above Magic but man...

[Baller234]

Bird is on record TWICE as saying that Magic was better than him.





That wasn't him being courteous or humble, that was him being HONEST. We know this because Larry Bird was the most arrogant son of a bitch in the history of the game and didn't think there was a soul on earth that was better than him. So when that man looks into the camera and says that guy was better than me, you kind of have to just the dead the conversation at that point.

I'm sure you'll have some people say he was just being generous. You might even have some people saying that his game 4 press conference was a ploy to try and get in Magic's head and soften him up. But no, that guy is being honest.

In real time I think the general consensus was that Bird was better than Magic. I don't have first hand memory of this of course but based on what I've seen and heard that seems to be the consensus. Bird was considered the better all around player and Magic while great had the benefit of being paired with arguably the best center ever up until that point.

But man... Magic beat him in college, and he beat him 2-1 in the NBA. I'm not saying that's the be all and end all, I know other factors are always at play, but in that moment after Game 4 I could see why Bird felt vulnerable enough to say that. This guy was the hardest working mf'er on god's green earth and was insanely gifted but no matter what he did he couldn't shake that Earvin motherf*cker.

Just food for thought.

[1987_Lakers]

Larry was better if you compare their peaks. Magic had the longevity edge, which is why you see him ranked ahead of Larry more often than not on all-time lists.

I feel they are both slightly overrated. Magic and Bird are responsible for saving the NBA. The league was in turmoil when they entered the NBA, Larry was the great white hope that delivered while Magic was a likable personality that was loved by fans and media, also helped that both played for big market teams that met in the Finals a few times. Because of those facts, it gave the NBA popularity it had not seen since the Wilt-Russell days. They hold an important place in history for saving this league and because of that, they get a bit overrated as overall players. Bird gets lots of passes for some of his playoff failures, despite having this reputation for being clutch. Magic's defense was horrific, all-time bad as he aged.

You can make a good argument that Curry has surpassed Magic as a player, they are at least neck and neck.

I'm also taking peak Jokic over both.

[StrongLurk]

Larry was better if you compare their peaks. Magic had the longevity edge, which is why you see him ranked ahead of Larry more often than not on all-time lists.

I feel they are both slightly overrated. Magic and Bird are responsible for saving the NBA. The league was in turmoil when they entered the NBA, Larry was the great white hope that delivered while Magic was a likable personality that was loved by fans and media, also helped that both played for big market teams that met in the Finals a few times. Because of those facts, it gave the NBA popularity it had not seen since the Wilt-Russell days. They hold an important place in history for saving this league and because of that, they get a bit overrated as overall players. Bird gets lots of passes for some of his playoff failures, despite having this reputation for being clutch. Magic's defense was horrific, all-time bad as he aged.

You can make a good argument that Curry has surpassed Magic as a player, they are at least neck and neck.

I'm also taking peak Jokic over both.

Magic and Bird have reached the point where their resumes are quite a bit better than their on court abilities. I am taking Curry over Magic in the 3-point era and I think he is the better player, but Magic's resume is "greater".

Jokic and Bird have the same situation. Jokic is better than Bird, but Bird's resume is still a bit "greater" than Jokic's.

I'd take Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe over Bird/Magic too.

[Baller234]

What does Joker do better than Bird other than rebound and score in the low post?

In terms of passing and playmaking they're both elite, in terms of shooting they're both elite. Mid range and all around ISO game clearly goes to Bird, defense the edge clearly goes to Bird.

I'm not really seeing a case for Joker being better at all but I'm willing to hear your arguments. I'm sure it will involve a lot of made up math equations.

[StrongLurk]

What does Joker do better than Bird other than rebound and score in the low post?

In terms of passing and playmaking they're both elite, in terms of shooting they're both elite. Mid range and all around ISO game clearly goes to Bird, defense the edge clearly goes to Bird.

I'm not really seeing a case for Joker being better at all but I'm willing to hear your arguments. I'm sure it will involve a lot of made up math equations.

See, I can't talk to you about Jokic because you are so ignorant about the data and eye test. To even make the post you made is ridiculous.

Jokic is better at scoring, rebounding, and passing. Jokic is legit a better mid range and perimeter shooter over Bird. Bird does have the edge on defense but it's a slight edge. Bird would not be all-nba defender in Jokic's era.

[highwhey]

What does Joker do better than Bird other than rebound and score in the low post?

In terms of passing and playmaking they're both elite, in terms of shooting they're both elite. Mid range and all around ISO game clearly goes to Bird, defense the edge clearly goes to Bird.

I'm not really seeing a case for Joker being better at all but I'm willing to hear your arguments. I'm sure it will involve a lot of made up math equations.

ISB will come in a few hours to paste some efficiency stats in favor of Jokic, he will ignore the era differences however.

[Baller234]

See, I can't talk to you about Jokic because you are so ignorant about the data and eye test. To even make the post you made is ridiculous.

Jokic is better at scoring, rebounding, and passing. Jokic is legit a better mid range and perimeter shooter over Bird. Bird does have the edge on defense but it's a slight edge. Bird would not be all-nba defender in Jokic's era.

Explain how. Use specifics and describe what skills he has that are superior.

Do it without referencing "data".

[John8204]

See, I can't talk to you about Jokic because you are so ignorant about the data and eye test. To even make the post you made is ridiculous.

Jokic is better at scoring, rebounding, and passing. Jokic is legit a better mid range and perimeter shooter over Bird. Bird does have the edge on defense but it's a slight edge. Bird would not be all-nba defender in Jokic's era.

1980 - Conf Finals
1981 - Title
1982 - Conf Finals
1984 - Title
1985 - NBA Finals
1986 - Title
1987 - NBA Finals
1988 - Conf Finals

In 9 seasons Bird made a run to at the very least the Conference championship 8 of those seasons, and only one time did they lose to the team that didn't win the title. Jokic has only made it to the conference championship level twice. Stat nerds love Jokic but he hasn't done enough to win when it counts to rank him against guys that have had dynasties of title contention.

Magic was on a team with 6 Hall of Famers and one guy that was better than him (KAJ)

[1987_Lakers]

ISB will come in a few hours to paste some efficiency stats in favor of Jokic, he will ignore the era differences however.

Even if you adjust for era differences, Jokic is still far more efficient than Bird as a scorer.

Jokic had a season where he had a 70 TS%, when the league average was at 58%. That is pretty insane.

[highwhey]

Even if you adjust for era differences, Jokic is still far more efficient than Bird as a scorer.

Jokic had a season where he had a 70 TS%, when the league average was at 58%. That is pretty insane.

jokic quits when he's out of breath, which is often. he also depends and benefits heavily from teammates, and the moment they stop producing at a high rate, he's garbage.

[warriorfan]

jokic quits when he's out of breath, which is often. he also depends and benefits heavily from teammates, and the moment they stop producing at a high rate, he's garbage.

Jokic can get overrated in some aspects but this is flat out just a gigantic projection from an unathletic fat Mexican guy.

Lmao.

[Carbine]

Steph being above Magic has no argument in the way we rank players. Absolutely NO case.

Magic has more:

Championships
Regular Season MVPs
Finals MVPs
First Team All-NBAs


Steph has one edge, longevity. That's not enough.

[FultzNationRISE]

Steph being above Magic has no argument in the way we rank players. Absolutely NO case.

Magic has more:

Championships
Regular Season MVPs
Finals MVPs
First Team All-NBAs


Steph has one edge, longevity. That's not enough.

Well thats always been a stupid way to compare players, altho I happen to agree anyway that Id prefer to have Magic if we're comparing each to his own era. Which isnt a knock on Steph at all, I just think he's not quite as valuable as Magic Johnson, which I think most would agree is a fair opinion to hold.

As far as Magic and Bird, it's just two different styles. If you dont know who else is going to be on the team and youre just taking one guy to build around, it's really a genuine coin flip IMO.

[StrongLurk]

Explain how. Use specifics and describe what skills he has that are superior.

Do it without referencing "data".

Jokic is better from everywhere on the floor except free throws. Unfortunately we don't have a ton of data on Bird like we do Jokic.

Go ahead and think of every shot/part of the floor...and realize Jokic is elite at all spots. He has the highest TS% of all time for volume scorers. His scoring/shooting splits look like a mix of Shaq, Dirk, and Nash...

[Baller234]

Magic would be a dominant player with or without the 3pt line. Steph could only dominate with a 3pt line.

That right there tells me who the better "basketball player" is.

I don't think Magic would have any difficulty whatsoever adapting to the modern style. Curry on the other hand would be a drastically different player if you applied the rules from the previous eras.