How can you watch someone lose over and over and then say they're the best ever?

[1987_Lakers]

Yeah and Jordan played 15 seasons and only hoisted the trophy 6 times. What the hell happened those other seasons? If you want to count progress rather than end result i'm sure youd be impressed by making the finals 10 times in 23 seasons or even better 10 times in a 14 year stretch. 8 straight etc etc....

Destroyed

[Full Court]

Destroyed

Dudley desperate for ways to cope now that his hero is in the twilight of a career characterized mostly by losing. With the most help of any star in history no less.

[3ba11]

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Thread Cliffs


Once Jordan got help, he didn't lose, while Lebron was a perennial loser with great rosters

[sdot_thadon]

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Thread Cliffs


Once Jordan got help, he didn't lose, while Lebron was a perennial loser with great rosters

Lets focus on the meat of your "thread cliffs"

.Once Jordan got help

Its kinda weird that Mj is the only goat or truly revered player that gets his failures excused like this. The years before Pippen was a perenial all nba, allstar caliber player? doesn't count. The comeback season without a strong frontcourt player? doesn't count. The wizards seasons in the worst east of all time? Doesn't count. If it doesn't count anytime you fail without great help, then everyone's the ****ing goat. This was always the weakest apsect of MJ's goat case. Focusing on every other players failure while simultaneously trying to hide his.

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Thread Cliffs


Jordan lost more than he won, but let's not talk about that

Corrected

[3ba11]

Lets focus on the meat of your "thread cliffs"



Its kinda weird that Mj is the only goat or truly revered player that gets his failures excused like this. The years before Pippen was a perenial all nba, allstar caliber player? doesn't count. The comeback season without a strong frontcourt player? doesn't count. The wizards seasons in the worst east of all time? Doesn't count. If it doesn't count anytime you fail without great help, then everyone's the ****ing goat. This was always the weakest apsect of MJ's goat case. Focusing on every other players failure while simultaneously trying to hide his.


Corrected

The facts:

All-Star Teammates

Jordan...... 6-2
Lebron...... 4-8


Preseason Favorites

Jordan...... 6-0
Lebron...... 4-4


1 or 2 seeds

Jordan..... 6-0
Lebron..... 4-5


Finals Teams

Jordan..... 6-0
Lebron..... 4-6

Jordan was basically undefeated when he got help, while Lebron mostly lost, in part because he dominated much less (barely scraping 25 ppg most seasons or series)

[Hey Yo]

Times lost in the first round

Mikey 2x
LeBron 0

Quit the NBA

Mikey 3x
LeBron 0

[SouBeachTalents]

Times lost in the first round

Mikey 2x
LeBron 0

Quit the NBA

Mikey 3x
LeBron 0

Huh? Bro, LeBron's lost in the first round 3 of the last 5 years

[Akeem34TheDream]

Huh? Bro, LeBron's lost in the first round 3 of the last 5 years

Guys that are still on here stopped watching basketball long time ago

[tpols]

Most real ball fans know MJ is the GOAT. He didnt need to be manufactured in media... organically backed up his brand. If anything Nike made him look like a goody two shoes but he was actually a bad guy.

[sdot_thadon]

The facts:

All-Star Teammates

Jordan...... 6-2
Lebron...... 4-8


Preseason Favorites

Jordan...... 6-0
Lebron...... 4-4


1 or 2 seeds

Jordan..... 6-0
Lebron..... 4-5


Finals Teams

Jordan..... 6-0
Lebron..... 4-6

Jordan was basically undefeated when he got help, while Lebron mostly lost, in part because he dominated much less (barely scraping 25 ppg most seasons or series)

Now go look at how many seasons each had a teammate make all nba or all defense next to them. And how many seasons they had a teammate finish in the top 10 for mvp voting alongside them and get back to me with the "facts".......

[3ba11]

Now go look at how many seasons each had a teammate make all nba or all defense next to them. And how many seasons they had a teammate finish in the top 10 for mvp voting alongside them and get back to me with the "facts".......

Unlike 1st options, 2nd options don't make All-NBA with losing teams..

They need winning spotlight to make All-NBA..

Guys like Klay, Pippen, Parker, Pau, Dumars, Manu, Worthy and other 2nd options needed titles to start getting All-NBA, and 2nd options in general need winning teams to get All-NBA. the exception might be shot blockers like Gobert or Dikembe.

So who cares about the opinion of Skip Bayless and Rachel Nichols (media awards).. It's common knowledge that Lebron had 2 Pippens with Wade/Bosh, yet he barely got a win over babies and a teammate bailout, which were sandwiched between the goat choke and record loss - it's the shakiest 2 for 4 ever, and it's the worst anyone could do with Wade/Bosh... Then he went 1 for 4 with Love or AD.. So he's a perennial loser when he got help, while MJ was a perennial winner once he got help

[sdot_thadon]

Most real ball fans know MJ is the GOAT. He didnt need to be manufactured in media... organically backed up his brand. If anything Nike made him look like a goody two shoes but he was actually a bad guy.

Id imagine im a bigger MJ fan than you'll ever be lol. And once I got to adulthood id say if Lebron's career is manufactured, MJ's was the test run or the blueprint. We just didn’t get to see how the soup was cooked with him so to speak.

[ShawkFactory]

Unlike 1st options, 2nd options don't make All-NBA with losing teams..

They need winning spotlight to make All-NBA..

Guys like Klay, Pippen, Parker, Pau, Dumars, Manu, Worthy and other 2nd options needed titles to start getting All-NBA, and 2nd options in general need winning teams to get All-NBA. the exception might be shot blockers like Gobert or Dikembe.

So who cares about the opinion of Skip Bayless and Rachel Nichols (media awards).. It's common knowledge that Lebron had 2 Pippens with Wade/Bosh, yet he barely got a win over babies and a teammate bailout, which were sandwiched between the goat choke and record loss - it's the shakiest 2 for 4 ever, and it's the worst anyone could do with Wade/Bosh... Then he went 1 for 4 with Love or AD.. So he's a perennial loser when he got help, while MJ was a perennial winner once he got help

Well yea...

Ordinarily if a guy is good enough to be all-nba, and he is NOT the best player on the team, then that probably isn't going to be a losing team.

[ralph_i_el]

Quitting for two years is kind of the worst form of losing, if you think about it.