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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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I eat cheese
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by Deuce Bigalow
Oscar or West...
Seems like West is known more for his Playoff performances while Oscar's know for his all around game and triple doubles.
Both got the All-NBA team accolades, both got the championship, as the 2nd best players, both were great scorers and able to get a lot of assists. Oscar has an MVP which West doesn't, but West has a Finals MVP which Oscar doesn't. West has had a lot more team success. Even though they both won a championship, West been to 9 NBA Finals and was real close to having multiple years. Oscar hasn't won many playoff series in his career. obviously West had a better team throughout since he had Elgin Baylor as a teammate since he was drafted, while Oscar never got anyone on the caliber until he was already on his last legs. So using team success isn't really fair for these two, but you can't take away those 6 NBA Finals runs before Wilt came to LA that West got too.
If West's teammate Wilt didn't shoot 2-11 FT in a 1 point loss in Game 4 of the 69 Finals, then West would have had multiple rings. West had 40 points in that game. West was a dominant Finals performer, and I think that gives him the slight edge. So I go with Jerry West.
West DOES have an MVP.
Unfortunately, voters have no ability, or willing, to apply any sort of context. In 69/70, West led the Lakers to 46 wins with Wilt, Baylor and Hairston missing a combined 125 games. Wilt missed damn near the whole season. They were 1-7 without west. He led them on a 9 game winning streak at the end of January in which he averaged 34ppg. With West in the lineup, they were 10-12 against the 4 best teams in the league. They were 2-4 against the Knicks, but West averaged 34ppg against them, including three 40+ point games. For the season, he averaged a 31/5/8 on 50% shooting.
Meanwhile, Reed averaged a 22/14/2 on the most stacked team in the league that had no notable injuries. This was easily his best defensive season, but he was certainly no Russ or Wilt as a defensive anchor.
And, btw, West has TWO Finals MVPs. Reed would definitely have deserved it if he had played the entire 7 games, but he didn't.
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College superstar
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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Not airballing my layups anymore
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
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NBA Legend
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
ISH has done a pretty damn good job with the list so far, thats almost exactly how my normal top 13 list looks like with the exception of Wilts current standing...
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Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Care to explain your reasoning for why you think this?
Sure.
We all know Dr. J for all his good traits - the unbelievable athleticism, his ability to put on a show, his overall very good stats....
But, he was a very limited player skill wise. People want to bash on LeBron for his lack of being refined, look at Dr. J. He couldn't shoot at all, was a solid defender at best (not saying he was bad), and couldn't lead the Sixers to a title as "the man".
I don't want to knock Erving too much for these things. BUT, people want to discredit guys like LeBron for these types of things all the time - is it not fair to also discredit Dr. J when comparatively speaking he was/is worse than LeBron in these aspects.
I'm not saying this to prop up LeBron btw, just using him as an example.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by AlonzoGOAT
It took wilt 2 to get to 6. And kobe 2 as the the guy to get to 8
I think Wilt Chamberlain having his name alongside just about every record got him to 6.
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NBA sixth man of the year
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
Sure.
We all know Dr. J for all his good traits - the unbelievable athleticism, his ability to put on a show, his overall very good stats....
But, he was a very limited player skill wise. People want to bash on LeBron for his lack of being refined, look at Dr. J. He couldn't shoot at all, was a solid defender at best (not saying he was bad), and couldn't lead the Sixers to a title as "the man".
I don't want to knock Erving too much for these things. BUT, people want to discredit guys like LeBron for these types of things all the time - is it not fair to also discredit Dr. J when comparatively speaking he was/is worse than LeBron in these aspects.
I'm not saying this to prop up LeBron btw, just using him as an example.
Dr.J was not limited skillwise
You don't score 25+ points with 50% FG on limited skills.
He could get to the basket anytime he wanted, was creative in the air, and had a decent mid-pullup. He was feared on the streets for his versatile skillset. Dr.J was far from limited.
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Titles are overrated
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
But, he was a very limited player skill wise. People want to bash on LeBron for his lack of being refined, look at Dr. J. He couldn't shoot at all, was a solid defender at best (not saying he was bad), and couldn't lead the Sixers to a title as "the man".
You can watch him in the ABA wetting 25 footers and nobody is shocked. He had a good midrange turnaround and a pullup jumper when I watched him and he was way past his prime then. All the footage I see of young Doc hes nailing pullup jumpers on the break....just stopping on a dime and raising up like Westbrook seems to do 8 times a game.
And being a solid defender at best(which I dont believe is true...) doesnt mean you have no defensive skill. It means you are about average. And with his athletic ability he made plays many couldnt. And im talking mini fro Doc.
And not leading the sixers to a title as "the man" isnt a skill. Its running into the Celtics and Lakers over and over. It was considered an upset when they lost in 77 but you cant put that on Doc.
He went hard as hell in the couple games ive seen that series. Game 6 he was doing it all. Just...amazing. Coast to coast, floaters, pullup jumpers, sick hesitations and spin moves into the paint. Hard to fault him for Walton going all Big Fundamental.
An awful lot of people in the 70s and the 80s had Doc as the best player ever. And I remember him being called the GOAT forward all the time. And it wasnt just him being exciting. Nobody said that of Nique or David Thompson.
Doc really had "Might be the best in the world" status from the mid 70s till the early 80s. I think hes a bit disrespected these days because he didnt do the numbers he could have had he been more selfish.
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Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
You can watch him in the ABA wetting 25 footers and nobody is shocked. He had a good midrange turnaround and a pullup jumper when I watched him and he was way past his prime then. All the footage I see of young Doc hes nailing pullup jumpers on the break....just stopping on a dime and raising up like Westbrook seems to do 8 times a game.
And being a solid defender at best(which I dont believe is true...) doesnt mean you have no defensive skill. It means you are about average. And with his athletic ability he made plays many couldnt. And im talking mini fro Doc.
And not leading the sixers to a title as "the man" isnt a skill. Its running into the Celtics and Lakers over and over. It was considered an upset when they lost in 77 but you cant put that on Doc.
He went hard as hell in the couple games ive seen that series. Game 6 he was doing it all. Just...amazing. Coast to coast, floaters, pullup jumpers, sick hesitations and spin moves into the paint. Hard to fault him for Walton going all Big Fundamental.
An awful lot of people in the 70s and the 80s had Doc as the best player ever. And I remember him being called the GOAT forward all the time. And it wasnt just him being exciting. Nobody said that of Nique or David Thompson.
Doc really had "Might be the best in the world" status from the mid 70s till the early 80s. I think hes a bit disrespected these days because he didnt do the numbers he could have had he been more selfish.
Pertaining to the jump shooting, I don't fully agree with this. I'm not saying he was a solely drive-in guy, but he wasn't a spectacular shooter by any means. If I recall correctly, there's even things himself saying he didn't work on shooting too much because he didn't have to.
As far as "winning isn't a skill". I didn't mean to equate it to being a skill so sorry for the misinterpretation. I meant it as in regards to an All-Time ranking - there are plenty of others who are discredited for it despite facing stacked teams and obstacles, why shouldn't Dr. J be knocked down for it?
That's the 70's/80's. Looking at the list of all-time best forwards, many of them are from the post- Doc era.
Don't get me wrong, I love Erving and have him as a top 15-18 player. I just don't agree with him being better on an all-time list than a handful of other players.
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Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Lmao this should have been LeBrons spot if it weren't for the 2010 bandwagon jumpers.
anyway, I vote for Oscar. It was either him or West.
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Local High School Star
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
When I was growing up in the 70's the biggest two names were Kareem and Doctor J. Since Kareem is already voted in, it is time for Julius Erving to take his rightful place at #13.
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sahelanthropus
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by Rolando
When I was growing up in the 70's the biggest two names were Kareem and Doctor J. Since Kareem is already voted in, it is time for Julius Erving to take his rightful place at #13.
I'm not so sure...
if you include his ABA years, Doc is way up there in the top 10 (probably top 7)
this thread is NBA-only though (which I disagree with, but it's not my thread), so he'll probably come in at 15 or 16
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talk less, say more
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Jerry West.
I have abstract knowledge that this spot probably belongs to either West, Oscar, or Dr. J. It's kind of a joke that I'm voting though because I've seen 10 games total of all these players *combined*. But probably only one person in 10 who will vote in this thread has seen any more than I have, so I'm voting anyway. *shrug*
Last edited by Clifton; 08-27-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Local High School Star
Re: #13 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops
Originally Posted by fpliii
I'm not so sure...
if you include his ABA years, Doc is way up there in the top 10 (probably top 7)
this thread is NBA-only though (which I disagree with, but it's not my thread), so he'll probably come in at 15 or 16
Crap, I didn't take note of the NBA only aspect of this......That doesn't help the doctor. I will let my vote stand though.
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