(4) Clippers vs. (5) Mavericks First Round Playoff Series Thread

[Im Still Ballin]

You say he has a comparable supporting cast, so why should he win this series without an issue?

Its 2-2, it took a PG miracle 3 and brainless defense to tie it up, calm down. Youre just trying to instigate. You can say all this after the series.

Because he's supposedly on another level to the Harden's and Kawhi's according to these ISH posters who've built this narrative/perspective about him. I get it: Luka's the golden boy for a lot of you. I just find it peculiar how a lot of you ignore/give Luka a pass for things that you didn't for Harden/Kawhi and to a lesser extent Westbrook.

[90sgoat]

Clippers are still the worst possible matchup for Dallas tho along with Celtics and to a lesser degree Knicks.

Mavs struggle with physical teams and PJ and Gafford are good, but they're not Zubac or PG.

Both PJ and Gafford are good players, but they're not stars and they're not consistent, which is probably why they never made much noise.

This Dallas team isn't great.

[FultzNationRISE]

Because he's supposedly on another level to the Harden's and Kawhi's according to these ISH posters who've built this narrative/perspective about him. I get it: Luka's the golden boy for a lot of you. I just find it peculiar how a lot of you ignore/give Luka a pass for things that you didn't for Harden/Kawhi and to a lesser extent Westbrook.

You're creating a false equivalency.

Thinking Luka has been demonstrably better than Harden in the playoffs does not mean you think Luka is a "golden boy."

Plenty of people have criticized Luka right here in this thread, and still recognize he's been better in the playoffs than Harden. Youre ignoring it because it doesnt fit YOUR narrative.


If you wanna compare Luka to people in the playoffs, I guess follow the numbers:




Two series vs prime Kawhi + PG
A series vs DPOY Toody
A series vs the #1 seed Suns
A series vs the title winning Warriors
And now this series

Not exactly a lineup of walk-overs. And he's literally on a graphic with MJ and Wilt alone.


So if you think that's not "another level" versus Harden's playoff track record...

thats... fine I guess.

Have any opinion you wish.

[SouBeachTalents]

Has anyone actually claimed Luka is superior to healthy Kawhi? I never heard that as a consensus here.

And in regards to postseason play, it's pretty indisputable Luka's been better than Harden, I'm not sure why you're trying to pretend the guy everyone's been watching for the last decade hasn't been consistently disappointing in the playoffs.

[999Guy]

He really does.
But he’s 20-25lbs over his ideal weight, with a nagging knee.
And Mann is constantly pushing a hand into his stomach, groin, d!ck, ass, hips, etc.
He’s got all the talent, and size, but he’s a lazy MF that drinks too much alcohol.
I don’t know if he’ll ever get to his real ceiling unless he changes his lifestyle/habits.

You could’ve had said this exact statement word for word 3 years ago.


Luka’s probably running at 80% capacity even at his best. It’s insane. He’s gotten marginally better than when he was 20. Okay not marginally. He’s made significant improvements overall but to be all-world at 20 and still only being all-world at 24 while being a fat 3-point chucker who has little passion for defense is crazy.


Luka will most likely have a late peak like Harden did. And it’ll probably be utterly insane but he might be underrated by then

[FultzNationRISE]

Has anyone actually claimed Luka is superior to healthy Kawhi? I never heard that as a consensus here.

And in regards to postseason play, it's pretty indisputable Luka's been better than Harden, I'm not sure why you're trying to pretend the guy everyone's been watching for the last decade hasn't been consistently disappointing in the playoffs.

We humans have such goldfish brain mentalities. Literally whatever happened in the last 5 seconds is always suddenly "the way it is, the way it was, the way it always will be." It's like we dont store any information in our brains that we can use to see the bigger picture. We just react to the most recent/immediate thing and act like that's the only thing there is.

[SouBeachTalents]

We humans have such goldfish brain mentalities. Literally whatever happened in the last 5 seconds is always suddenly "the way it is, the way it was, the way it always will be." It's like we dont store any information in our brains that we can use to see the bigger picture. We just react to the most recent/immediate thing and act like that's the only thing there is.

The craziest part is we JUST saw this last year, Harden had two monster 40 point games against Boston, one of which they won without Embiid, before pulling his typical disappearing act to end the series.

If Harden plays at this level the rest of the series, I'd have no problem giving him his props. I've frankly been waiting for him to do this since like 2015

[Im Still Ballin]

Luka is an all-time great. Kawhi is an all-time great. Harden is an all-time great. Even Westbrook too. They'll all be in the HOF no doubt.

I just don't think there's much between them. Not as much as people like to pretend.

At their best, I'd take Kawhi first, followed by Luka, Harden, and then Westbrook. But I'm not going to pretend like any one of them couldn't beat the other with comparable supporting casts.

Players have playoff series where they're hotter than fish grease. They also have ones where they're cold as can be. Dirk's 2011 WCF was legendary. His 2005 1st round vs. Houston was terrible. But he was lucky enough to win that one despite McGrady outplaying him.

Luka has had some hot playoff series. He's going to have some cold ones like he is right now.

Just like Harden did. Who by the way, his last three playoff series in '19 and '20 for Houston were ****ing insane. Huge numbers. He was getting doubled the minute he stepped over half-court. Curry-like.

Unfortunately, his team lost two of those series. But I'm not going to hold that against him. Just like how some of you didn't hold it against Luka when he lost to The Clippers in the first round in '20 and '21 despite his big numbers.

[90sgoat]

You could’ve had said this exact statement word for word 3 years ago.


Luka’s probably running at 80% capacity even at his best. It’s insane. He’s gotten marginally better than when he was 20. Okay not marginally. He’s made significant improvements overall but to be all-world at 20 and still only being all-world at 24 while being a fat 3-point chucker who has little passion for defense is crazy.


Luka will most likely have a late peak like Harden did. And it’ll probably be utterly insane but he might be underrated by then

He's so much better on defense that it isn't comparable.

His rookie season he was a very bad defender in all aspects and got bullied quite a bit. He isn't a bad defender now and rarely even lazy.

[SATAN]

Luka's slow as **** footwork while trying to cross guys over near the 3 point line is hilarious.

*cross over fail, cross over fail, dribble towards the paint while bumping defender only to notice defender still there defending, try to draw foul*

**** this guy.

[90sgoat]

Has anyone actually claimed Luka is superior to healthy Kawhi? I never heard that as a consensus here.

I would not agree unless I saw Luka beat healthy Kawhi.

I think they're both close, but Kawhi until now is the much more controlled and experienced player and it has shown in their series.

[Im Still Ballin]

He needs to win this series for sure or he will suffer some serious criticism where public criticism of his character will begin.

I don't think it changes the analysis which is as it always was, he is immature and lazy, but incredibly skilled, and until he changes that he won't be the best.

I agree. Luka up until this point has been in a honeymoon phase with measured expectations. Like early LeBron, his supporting casts were not up to scratch with some of his playoff opposition. The general thought is that if you even the odds and give him an equal or comparable cast, victory will be certain.

But when he does get that help and still comes up short? That bubble bursts, that narrative dies, and the reality sets in and the criticism as you said will begin. And we might just realize that he's just like the rest.

[FultzNationRISE]

I agree. Luka up until this point has been in a honeymoon phase with measured expectations. Like early LeBron, his supporting casts were not up to scratch with some of his playoff opposition. The general thought is that if you even the odds and give him an equal or comparable cast, victory will be certain.

But when he does get that help and still comes up short? That bubble bursts, that narrative dies, and the reality sets in and the criticism as you said will begin. And we might just realize that he's just like the rest.

So... 2011 happening means Lebron and Harden are on the same level?

Am I following the logic correctly?

[BarberSchool]

Luka’s passing and vision is what separates him offensively from those 3. Luka makes passes none of those other 3 ever attempted.

What separates them from him is superior natural speed and quickness, Westbrick is night and day in this regard, Kawhi the least, surprisingly, as despite having low body fat, he moves slow and very deliberate.

He is most similar to Harden.
A bigger, slower Harden with better passing, adaptability, and versatility in counters.
But this series isn’t showing it, since Luka’s knee has him moving even more slowly and without the ability to plant as hard to create full step back distance, and for counters / spins.

Keep in mind, his best step back is driving left, left wing, plants his right hard and pushes his heavy frame back to the left, and gets ALOT of separation from the defender. He probably weighs 256 right now. Using a bad right knee in that way under 256lbs ain’t fun, I’d imagine. My playing weight was 205-210, and even at 225, I feel the difference with hard, distance-creating lateral braking/redirection.

Kawhi is a poor comparison, since kawhi’s defense was all world, and Luka’s perimeter d is poor AF. And their only offensive similarity are slow, controlled pivot counters/pivot/dirk middie-fades.

Westbrick even worse comparison, since Westbrick is essentially a transition trackstar, polar opposite. With no off the dribble 3, no step back, no brakes, all full steam ahead straight line trackstar.

So the assertion that giving them similar rosters offers a comparable imagined equivalency is in err. Harden maybe, but def not Kawhi/Westbrick.

[BarberSchool]

Every player has their limitations.
Height, wingspan, etc cannot change.

But players also have their “what if” attributes.
That they may or may not ever achieve, to hit their ceiling.

Westbrick, Giannis, etc …. It was always “when their J develops” which it never did. Genetic differences in Nerve ending concentration in the fingertips and especially the bandwidth differences in the communication bridge between the radial nerve & ulnar nerve simply limit the hand/eye coordination and fine motor skill and fine touch for some. In layman’s terms, it’s why some people suck at complex calligraphy, or can’t play extremely fast difficult piano passages even if they practice their entire lives, physical limitations that aren’t visible externally.

Luka, Jokic … they share a likely UNACHIEVABLE “what if” ceiling limitation ..:. They likely will be unable to get in true NBA level physical condition. They likely genetically just cannot get there, nor do they seem to have the dietary discipline or intention to do so.

With Luka, another solvable problem, that many teammates have alluded to, is his heavy drinking too frequently. That’s another hurdle to ever achieving his true best condition, which we thought would be just a more muscular version of his rookie year condition…. But he was 230 THEN. Came to training camp one year in the mid-260’s, was around 260 at various points in 2022, even during that crazy December run he had.

His disproportionately puffy face and somewhat accelerated facial aging, are a dead giveaway of excess alcohol consumption.

He doesn’t look good right now, for multiple reasons, and if he wants to stay healthy, dropping 20-25lbs will help his legs last longer and not take so much abuse. And quittihg alcohol completely will make him heal faster.

Playing in Dallas probably isn’t helping. When he said “recovery beer” we all kinda knew bullsh!t Texas social culture had infected him a little bit too much.

Also, I think his father contributes to this as well, given that he was photographed with his father and another Balkan, just a few hours before a western conference finals game against the warriors … drinking alcohol with a heavy meal. Perhaps alcoholism is part of why Vlade (a literal chain smoker himself) disliked Luka’s pops ?