"Pippen was the best player in the world in 93, 94, 95" - Dennis Rodman

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Would he? A knock on him has always been his defense, even during the regular season. Harden is universally considered top 5 (even with the qualms about his playoffs, although his stats against GS were identical to Kawhi's but one choked and the other beasted?) and you have some people who will put him as high as 2nd or 3rd (partly depends on how much you think LeBron has declined). Giannis is #1 but Harden, LeBron, Davis, Luka can go in any order 2-5. Durant and Curry are hurt but last year Luka and Davis weren't in the mix and going back further you take out Giannis and add Westbrook. Harden has been right there in the top 5 conversation consistently in Houston.

Not gonna derail the topic here, but he absolutely would. In the regular-season, Harden has incredible advanced numbers. Great ORPM/ORAPM/PIPM and high efficiency for the volume. His defense has also gotten better these last few years. Either way, its not like 1-way players weren't ever considered BITW. As you know.

Far as the Kawhi and Harden comparison? To me its apples and oranges. On a surface level, you can look at their stats and come to that conclusion. I'd say watch last years Game 5 and 6 again. Vs the Warriors. Harden was horrible in Game 5, the moment Durant couldn't play. And in Game 6, at home, had multiple turnovers in the final minutes with large stretches where he was outclassed by Curry. Durant didn't play in that one either.

You might not classify that stuff with "choking", but I definitely do.

Me too, which is why it is funny that it is completely forgotten. It is boiled down to MJ being "rusty" now.

Shallow analysis no doubt. That's the problem with fanboys. They legit think 1 man can AND DOES everything.

Kuniva, I have to ask

If Rodman played today, you think a high percentage of his shots would be 3s? He took occasional 3s back then and it wasn't considered "kosher" for 4s and 5s to do it for the most part then, so I'm wondering if you think he'd try to be a 3 and d guy now.

I feel like he'd have to or he'd clog the paint (unless he was playing with a stretch 5).

They were pretty rare for Rodman even then. He usually took them in the final seconds when Chicago had all but the game won. Or when the Bulls were out of options. LITERALLY. Since everyone is doing it today, ya his percentage would go up. Naturally. Not gonna pretend I know the exact figure but it wouldn't be a whole lot bro. It wasn't in Dennis' makeup, and would be the first to tell you he couldn't shoot for shit.

I think peak Worm would be a cross between Adams and Draymond but on steroids and crack. Phil called him one of the greatest athletes he's ever seen. I don't disagree.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Conventional wisdom at the time was Scottie was the best 'non center' in the league. In the aftermath of MJs departure in 93 the centers took over the league. Hakeem, Admiral, Shaq. Pippen fairly could be called the best of anyone who wasn't in that class of center. Ewing was a slightly lesser version of the player we saw in 92 and 93, still a top flight player but I wouldn't have taken him over Pip in 94 all things considered. It's close either way. I don't think anyone else had a strong argument. Maybe Karl Malone? Barkley wasn't healthy in 94. If he was as he is in 93 he would have had another season on that level. Scottie was top 5 in 94 and 95 those years. Best? No.

Malone and Barkley were still in their primes and easily better than Pip.

LOL @ taking Pip over Ewing in 94. Guess u missed their series against each other when Pat was by far the best player of the series and nearly hit a gamewinner to go up 3-0 until Kukoc saved the Bulls with his gamewinner with Scottie pouting like a bitch on the bench. Horace Grant was the Bulls best player that series BTW

[Roundball_Rock]

LOL at this guy trying to say Grant was better than Pippen in that series.

Malone and Barkley were still in their primes and easily better than Pip.

I don't see Barkley on here, do you?

Top 5 in all-NBA voting in 1994

1) Pippen (forward) 94
2) Hakeem (center) 68
3) Malone (forward) 65
4) Stockton (guard) 56
5) Sprewell (guard) 29

Pippen crushed everyone in the voting. You can let Hakeem slide because he was at the same position as Robinson and that cost him a lot of votes. Robinson was considered on par with Hakeem at the time. However, look at Pippen's vote and compare that to the other forwards and guards. Karl Malone was a top 5 player for practically all of the 90's, right? Pippen crushed him 94-68 in the voting. No, Pippen playing SF and Malone PF was not a factor. All-NBA voting is done on a forward/center/guard basis. Several times in the 90's two PF's, especially Malone and Barkley, took the two forward spots on the first team.

A quick internet search revealed the following for his other peak seasons:


Top 5 in all-NBA voting in 1995

1) Malone (F) 519
2) Robinson (C) 479
3) Pippen (F) 451
4) Stockton (G) 447
5) P. Hardaway (G) 394

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/05/12/sp...s-all-nba.html

Top 5 in all-NBA voting in 1996

1) Jordan (G) 113 (unanimous)
2) Pippen (F) 91
3) Hardaway (G) 90
4) Malone (F) 89
5) Robinson (C) 65

Since we know there were 113 voters Pippen received 81% of the vote. He got hurt during the final fifth of the season and his production declined so that surely cost him some votes. The margin between him and #3 and #4 would be greater if he didn't get hurt. Still, the guy gets hurt and averages 15 ppg for one-fifth of the season (21-22 ppg before that) and he still gets more votes than anyone not named Jordan.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/24/sp...tar-again.html

This is voting for the all-NBA team. Regarding the all-Defensive team, Pippen received the most votes in 1994. And in 1995. And in 1996. Yes, also in 1997. So to recap, these were his finishes during his peak:

All-NBA voting: 1st, 3rd, 2nd
All-Defensive voting: 1st, 1st, 1st

Scottie may never have been a top 5 player but if he wasn't he sure had a lot of people fooled at the time.

Either way, its not like 1-way players weren't ever considered BITW

Magic was. ;)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Magic was. ;)

Either way, its not like 1-way players weren't ever considered BITW

Exactly

If you just go by regular-season, '90 Barkley made a nice case for himself too.

[Roundball_Rock]

Exactly

If you just go by regular-season, '90 Barkley made a nice case for himself too.

Misread since I was trying to respond to so many quotes in this thread. My bad!

Yeah people forget Barkley 90'. He may have been better then than he was during his MVP year.

[Phoenix]

Malone and Barkley were still in their primes and easily better than Pip.

LOL @ taking Pip over Ewing in 94. Guess u missed their series against each other when Pat was by far the best player of the series and nearly hit a gamewinner to go up 3-0 until Kukoc saved the Bulls with his gamewinner with Scottie pouting like a bitch on the bench. Horace Grant was the Bulls best player that series BTW

Pip and Ewing weren't matched against each other in that series. Ewing against the Bulls mediocre frontline comparing that to Pip going against the Knicks perimeter defenders with that frontline in the background isnt an apples to apples comparison. The black mark on Scottie that year was the sit-out, admittedly that marred what was otherwise an MVP caliber season but to act like he wasn't in the discussion for top 5 that year is crazy. Or top 6, or top 7. Whatever. After Hakeem, Shaq and Admiral its up for debate who came immediately after them.

[97 bulls]

Malone and Barkley were still in their primes and easily better than Pip.

LOL @ taking Pip over Ewing in 94. Guess u missed their series against each other when Pat was by far the best player of the series and nearly hit a gamewinner to go up 3-0 until Kukoc saved the Bulls with his gamewinner with Scottie pouting like a bitch on the bench. Horace Grant was the Bulls best player that series BTW

Easily better than Pip how?!!!!! What were they doing that allows you to make this claim??

[Phoenix]

Yeah people forget Barkley 90'. He may have been better then than he was during his MVP year.

Barkley not getting MVP that year was more media backlash because of his off court stuff. He easily could/should have won that year.

[Roundball_Rock]

Pip and Ewing weren't matched against each other in that series. Ewing against the Bulls mediocre frontline comparing that to Pip going against the Knicks perimeter defenders with that frontline in the background isnt an apples to apples comparison. The black mark on Scottie that year was the sit-out, admittedly that marred what was otherwise an MVP caliber season but to act like he wasn't in the discussion for top 5 that year is crazy. Or top 6, or top 7. Whatever. After Hakeem, Shaq and Admiral its up for debate who came immediately after them.

Exactly. It is also funny that he is acting like Ewing had some great series and Pippen sucked. They both averaged 23 PPG. Ewing had better percentages, but he was a C against weak centers while Pippen faced the same defenders who held MJ to 40% the previous year.

Barkley not getting MVP that year was more media backlash because of his off court stuff. He easily could/should have won that year.

That was a factor but Magic got credit for keeping the Lakers going without Kareem, although by Kareem's 20th season he was a 10 PPG guy.

Barkley actually got more first place votes than Magic but lost under the weird system where you get five votes and rank MVPs 1 to 5.

[Smoke117]

The best of Scottie Pippen early career highlights

The mixture of athleticism and length was just beautiful to watch in those early days. He'd become a better and stronger player, but he was just flat out explosive in those first 5 years.

[Turbo Slayer]

The best of Scottie Pippen early career highlights

The mixture of athleticism and length was just beautiful to watch in those early days. He'd become a better and stronger player later on, but he was never as flat out explosive as he was in the first 5 years of his career.

That pass at 0:10 tho!

[Roundball_Rock]

Now we are told he wasn't a superstar yet other stars wanted to be him?

If you could be any other player here who would it be?

It was a question I'd asked 12 years ago to Dream Team III: Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley, Penny Hardaway, Gary Payton, Shaq.

Their answers lent insight into which players they respected, whose game they feared. Back then Scottie Pippen's name came up the most. Five out of the 12 players on that team wanted to be, even if for one game, Jordan's Green Hornet. When asked, "Why Pip?" it was Miller who explained it best: "Because Pippen can score only five points and still dominate a basketball game."

https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/stor...jackson/090216

[ELITEpower23]

[3ball]

You know 3ball is fcking DYING inside not being able to respond to this thread

You guys call me crazy but Rodman was ACTUALLY crazy - 95' Pippen had a bum .500 team before MJ came back to carry him to another 3-peat..

94' Pippen peaked at 22 and 5 assists, while bowing down to Ewing in the playoffs with historic chokes/blunders - Kukoc led the team in playoff BPM and 3 teammates beat Pippen in WS/48.

93' Pippen had a horrible season, including zero votes for DPOY (MJ was #2) - he also had a 2.0 playoff BPM with lower PER, WS/48 and pace-adjusted scoring than 14' Wade, and lower than 13' Wade across the board (BPM, VORP, PER, WS/48).

[Shooter]

dey know