Jokic's title run when compared to other all time greats

[SouBeachTalents]

They compared stats across era, but Jokic was pretty good.

Perk must have been fuming during that segment.

[FultzNationRISE]

Thats what everyones been saying. He’s basically a hybrid of all the great players.

He IS the Unicorn.

He reminds me so much of Gronk. Both aesthetically and athletically. It doesnt take away from Tony Gonzales or Kellen Winslow Sr or Antonio Gates to look at what this new guy does and just say “Those guys were amazing but this dude is something different. He’s a ****ing mutant.”

[SouBeachTalents]

Thats what everyones been saying. He’s basically a hybrid of all the great players.

He IS the Unicorn.

He reminds me so much of Gronk. Both aesthetically and athletically. It doesnt take away from Tony Gonzales or Kellen Winslow Sr or Antonio Gates to look at what this new guy does and just say “Those guys were amazing but this dude is something different. He’s a ****ing mutant.”

You really think Gronk was on another level than Kelce? I honestly think he's at worst as good as Gronk, and was putting up big numbers before Mahomes even got there.

[StrongLurk]

It seems like every year the media does this is Kawhi, Gianis, Jokic , etc is having the best postseason we ever seen (until the next one) Someone wins a championship every year and someone is the best player on the team. Do it, run it back 5 or more times then we will talk. Shaq got 3 finals MVPs in a row and forced teams to leave a roster spot open for any 7ft that was good enough for 4ppg and 6 fouls.

Shaq is the most underrated GOAT IMO. I honestly want to slot him at number 5 all time, but so many people downplay him because of Kobe's popularity.

[FultzNationRISE]

You really think Gronk was on another level than Kelce? I honestly think he's at worst as good as Gronk, and was putting up big numbers before Mahomes even got there.

Tbh I havent watched much of the NFL the last few years, so I dont know a lot about Kelce’s numbers or specific impact. But Im talking about when Gronk was at his peak. It was already clear he was the best tight end ever to that point. There was no need to wait to admit it. The dude looked like an actual mutant out there, making all these great defenders look like helpless little boys. He was the Jim Brown of tight ends. It wasnt a matter of determining greatness by “lets see how the numbers compare at the end of their career” it was a matter of “we’ve clearly never seen anyone who can do all this.”

[NBAGOAT]

his team definitely played really well on both ends around him, cant call this a carry job. Do keep in mind even though murray's 26ppg on 58.6ts% looks really impressive, 58ts% was the league average this year and 26ppg wasnt even in the top 10 among playoff scorers. He wasnt historically good for a 2nd option if you account for era. Top 10 in 2016 wouldve been like 24 ppg and klay scored that much on above average efficiency and isnt considered an top tier 2nd option.

[Phoenix]

^ That said, Lebron did carry his teams.

He’s the exception.

I read your post immediately above this and thought something was off. Took all of 3 seconds to realize there wasn't a Lebron plug and thought you were perhaps falling off.

[FilmyCogTurner]

This is pretty extreme. Had Giannis's ring been won this year we would be hearing the same thing said about him.

Look at the Nuggets roster after Jokic, you have Murray, AGordon, Porter, KCP, Brown.. that is pretty damn good when compared to their competition. It's a great championship for sure but they did what they were supposed to do when you factor in who they had to beat.

Mavs 2011 still holds more weight in my eyes and I love Jokic but we have to be honest on how much this team was challenged.

[SouBeachTalents]

This is pretty extreme. Had Giannis's ring been won this year we would be hearing the same thing said about him.

Look at the Nuggets roster after Jokic, you have Murray, AGordon, Porter, KCP, Brown.. that is pretty damn good when compared to their competition. It's a great championship for sure but they did what they were supposed to do when you factor in who they had to beat.

Mavs 2011 still holds more weight in my eyes and I love Jokic but we have to be honest on how much this team was challenged.

I honestly think Jokic beat better teams in the West than Dirk did in 2011. 2023 Suns/Lakers are more talented than the 2011 Thunder/Lakers.

[theman93]

You really think Gronk was on another level than Kelce? I honestly think he's at worst as good as Gronk, and was putting up big numbers before Mahomes even got there.

Receiving wise they're close. But blocking? Gronk runs laps around him. You could put him on an island against an edge and he would hold his own.

[DarkSephiroth]

Stopped reading right there

Well then, if you choose to ignore facts and stick to your opinion, that's cool. If Wilt were drafted to Boston and had 7 HOF'ers, he'd have won a ring every year.

Here's their H2H in case you're wondering: 94 games against each other
Wilt: 29.9PPG, 28.1RPG, 49% FG
Russell: 14.2PPG 22.9 RPG, 37% FG.

Who is the better player based on their H2H above? That's like saying Robert Horry is better than Jordan because 7 Rings > 6.

[DarkSephiroth]

You can't possibly claim this was an all-time carry ring when his 2nd option averaged 26 ppg

In terms of all time playoff runs, I'd need some time to reflect on where it would rank. It'd be up there with the GOAT runs like '94/'95 Hakeem, '00 Shaq, '03 Duncan etc. But ranking playoff runs 25-30 years apart is a very difficult task, the rules, officiating, and style of play are wildly different now than they were in the 90's/early 2000's.

In my opinion, Jamal Murray is an awful decision maker / Point Guard. He was able to score a lot of points because of what I call the "Fat-boy Handoff Screen Action" with Jokic. Jokic's incredible playmaking allowed Murray to attack at will, although I will admit Jamal Murray had a great playoff run he's pretty low for a second option on a dominant championship team. 2000 Shaq had Kobe and a laundry list of solid role players like Glen Rice, Harper, Fisher, Brian Shaw, etc. And Shaq's brutal FT shooting kinda hurts late in games. Duncan's runs were excellent as well, but he had Ginobili / Parker / David Robinson (although he didn't have Ginobili / Parker in '99, that's probably the best single player run in recent memory). Most of these players I listed are better than 6'2 Jamal Murray being the 2nd best player. So it is an all-time great run, especially considering who he dispatched on the way. Towns / Gobert / Edwards, Durant / Booker / CP3, Lebron / AD is a wall mount worthy trophy level hunt.

And just to clarify, I don't think Denver is a team full of scrubs. Mike Malone did an incredible job of promoting movement / cutting / teamwork, and everyone bought into the system. Aaron Gordon played great defense and his size / athleticism was great. Porter Jr had a good playoffs until the Finals, but still having a 6'10 guy out there working hard is nice. And obviously Jamal Murray is still a great player / scorer despite not being the best decision maker. Bruce Brown and Christian Braun off the bench brought energy and hustle, with some timely plays. Overall, any championship is a team effort. But I have not seen a team more reliant on one player in a long long time, and Jokic's play definitely impressed me.

[hold this L]

The Nuggets bench def had a great playoff run and deserve a lot of credit. Both to Calvin Booth for how it was assembled, Malone for how it was used, and the players themselves for how they performed.

That said, I believe it is absolutely true that simply playing with Jokic has LIFTED his teammates understanding and confidence in teamwork, and his example made them better ball players even when he went off the court. When youve got a star player who plays with that level of professionalism, it makes other guys feel silly to then go out there and try to be selfish hero ball divas. Same effect Duncan had on San Antonio’s culture. And of course you have to bring in teammates willing to make that commitment, which both organizations did. But nobody would have looked at the Nuggets bench in a vaccuum and said “Bruce Brown, Christian Brown, Jeff Green, WOW!!!”

Jokic sets a tone few other stars have. And the guys around stepped up.

Where was that level of professionalism in every other season? Jokic is great because he also improves teams but giving him credit for how others do when he's on the bench makes absolutely zero sense. The team was incredible this post season, as was Jok. And yes you can absolutely look at that bench and be impressed, one guy was arguably the best player vs Boston when KD and Kyrie were on the team. He's one of the best off the bench players in the entire league. They got the right players along with what they already had, their GM deserves a lot of credit for acquiring the final pieces to the puzzle.

These guys are going to be a problem for years in the league.

[j3lademaster]

They compared stats across era, but Jokic was pretty good.

That's insane.

[FultzNationRISE]

Where was that level of professionalism in every other season? Jokic is great because he also improves teams but giving him credit for how others do when he's on the bench makes absolutely zero sense. The team was incredible this post season, as was Jok. And yes you can absolutely look at that bench and be impressed, one guy was arguably the best player vs Boston when KD and Kyrie were on the team. He's one of the best off the bench players in the entire league. They got the right players along with what they already had, their GM deserves a lot of credit for acquiring the final pieces to the puzzle.

These guys are going to be a problem for years in the league.

I guarantee you the Nuggets players themselves would tell you that seeing Jokic’s focus, unselfishness, consistency etc first hand has made them better as individuals. As I said, guys feel silly going out there playing low IQ ball next to Jokic. On teams that dont have that kind of leadership, players dont stick out as much for making low IQ plays and feel less inhibited to do it.

You can actually see it over the course of watching them the last couple years. He has contributed to the mentality guys go out there and play with. It’s contagious. Obviously the players’ talent level doesnt change, but they absolutely play with better discipline knowing theyll be the obvious weak link if they dont.

Same impact on a team’s basketball culture Lebron is famous for creating. It’s a real thing.