How do you go about ranking Kobe Bryant?

[1987_Lakers]

Oh right, Kobe played with Shaq. How could I forget. I guess that means his rings don't count.

Oh that's right.

Dwayne Wade
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen

I'm sorry is this an all star team or was this Lebron's supporting cast!?!?

Dude really just mentioned a 37 year old Ray allen.

And Wade was a 20 ppg player with knee issues when LeBron won titles with him. Averaged like 15 ppg during the 2013 run.

Kobe played with a peak Shaq who many feel had a top 5 peak of all time.

[RRR3]

Oh right, Kobe played with Shaq. How could I forget. I guess that means his rings don't count.

Oh that's right.

Dwayne Wade
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen

I'm sorry is this an all star team or was this Lebron's supporting cast!?!?

Which of those guys were better than LeBron? LeBron never played with anyone who could carry him to a ring. Listing Ray Allen is so funny he averaged like 10 PPG with bad defense when he played with LeBron

[Baller234]

You realize LeBron is rated higher than Kobe by the majority of people now? The discussion has been MJ and LeBron for a long time now you’re stuck in 2012.

If you really wanna play that game then why do you think Bron is better than MJ? Last time I checked he routinely wins the polls whenever he's compared to Lebron.

You really are a walking contradiction.

[SouBeachTalents]

[RRR3]

If you really wanna play that game then why do you think Bron is better than MJ? Last time I checked he routinely wins the polls whenever he's compared to Lebron.

You really are a walking contradiction.

I don’t think LeBron is better than MJ. You thought you had me. Oops.

[Axe]

But stats tho...

[RRR3]

Ah but you see LeBron turned them into scrubs. But they were still elite at the same time they were scrubs.

[elementally morale]

You do not. For one, they track pretty much everything these days, from screens to distance covered, to hockey assists. For two guys who are highly impactful in terms of stuff that doesn’t show up on the traditional stat sheet (say Marcus Smart) do get their value reflected in analytics because of impact data. Impact data simply measures how well a team plays when the player is in, regardless of if they have a dominant statline or not. Stuff like this is how we know Derek White is a great player for instance.

Every stat you have out there is impacted by all the other players on the court. Bradley Beal is a cool example, as is Porzingis. It's very hard to measure beforehand how your pieces will fit together in reality. If it was merely a stats game, we would not need games at all. A few computers crunch the numbers and we have a champion before the season starts -- advanced stats tell us exactly what to expect. But it is not like that, and injuries are not the only reason for that.

Anyway, it has very little to do with not including Kobe in a top 20. If you don't you won't and that's okay. But coming with advanced stat upon advanced stat is not something that will convince many people (the ones that will agree didn't like the guy to begin with). It's much easier to say: I just don't want a guy like that on my team, so he is not top 20 for me. That's a totally valid argument, as these lists are not definitive.

[Baller234]

I don’t think LeBron is better than MJ. You thought you had me. Oops.

So then why do you think Lebron is better than Kobe? Kobe is not very far off from Mike.

What specific reason do you have MJ above Lebron? Stats?????

[RRR3]

Every stat you have out there is impacted by all the other players on the court. Bradley Beal is a cool example, as is Porzingis. It's very hard to measure beforehand how your pieces will fit together in reality. If it was merely a stats game, we would not need games at all. A few computers crunch the numbers and we have a champion before the season starts -- advanced stats tell us exactly what to expect. But it is not like that, and injuries are not the only reason for that.

Anyway, it has very little to do with not including Kobe in a top 20. If you don't you won't and that's okay. But coming with advanced stat upon advanced stat is not something that will convince many people (the ones that will agree didn't like the guy to begin with). It's much easier to say: I just don't want a guy like that on my team, so he is not top 20 for me. That's a totally valid argument, as these lists are not definitive.

Yes +/- is impacted by everyone who is on the court that’s why they don’t just use raw +/- and they look at a players contributions in all the various lineups they play in. I never said Kobe wasn’t top 20 either that was the dumbass OP who if you back far enough you can see me arguing against.

[RRR3]

So then why do you think Lebron is better than Kobe? Kobe is not very far off from Mike.

What specific reason do you have MJ above Lebron? Stats?????

Insane comment. Wow. Just wow.

[elementally morale]

You realize LeBron is rated higher than Kobe by the majority of people now? The discussion has been MJ and LeBron for a long time now you’re stuck in 2012.

I we accept this to be true (and why not, let's do it) then we assume it to be important what the majority thinks. If it is, we should also accept their opinion on Kobe. He is most definitely top 10 if voted by the majority all over the world (same in the US). I'd say he is mire likely to be top 5 than top 10. But outside the top 20-25? By the majority? That ain't happening.

However, why is it so damn important what the majority thinks? They are wrong on many things, aren't they? Will they change my opinion when it comes to acknowledging talent in the NBA? Not really.

[RRR3]

I we accept this to be true (and why not, let's do it) then we assume it to be important what the majority thinks. If it is, we should also accept their opinion on Kobe. He is most definitely top 10 if voted by the majority all over the world (same in the US). I'd say he is mire likely to be top 5 than top 10. But outside the top 20-25? By the majority? That ain't happening.

However, why is it so damn important what the majority thinks? They are wrong on many things, aren't they? Will they change my opinion when it comes to acknowledging talent in the NBA? Not really.

Why do you keep accusing me of ranking Kobe outside the top 20-25? Is my username arbitrarywater. Pretty much everyone disagreed with him about that including me. I don’t care what the majority think but he was the one using that fallacious logic to begin with.

[elementally morale]

Yes +/- is impacted by everyone who is on the court that’s why they don’t just use raw +/- and they look at a players contributions in all the various lineups they play in. I never said Kobe wasn’t top 20 either that was the dumbass OP who if you back far enough you can see me arguing against.

I used it as a generalization. (If you don't = If some of you don't = if one doesn't.)
Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Baller234]

I we accept this to be true (and why not, let's do it) then we assume it to be important what the majority thinks. If it is, we should also accept their opinion on Kobe. He is most definitely top 10 if voted by the majority all over the world (same in the US). I'd say he is mire likely to be top 5 than top 10. But outside the top 20-25? By the majority? That ain't happening.

However, why is it so damn important what the majority thinks? They are wrong on many things, aren't they? Will they change my opinion when it comes to acknowledging talent in the NBA? Not really.

3tard very much needs his opinions to be in line with the popular majority. He needs constant affirmation. That is why he so frequently cites majority opinion whenever he thinks he's winning an argument.

Unless of course his opinion is unpopular and stupid, at which point he will claim he doesn't care about popular opinion.