Luka has an argument in my mind as best playoff offensive player ever.

[Carbine]

I don't like Luka at all, the way he cries after every miss to the referees and his laziness of defense at times. He's the player I root against the most, I don't want to see him win anything.

You can't deny this guy's offensive ability when it matters though. Even when he was "off" last series, he still controlled the game. His ability to play the pick and roll is second to none - ever. His iso ability is the best in the league and is up there with anyone all time now that the 3 ball is falling the way it is this year.

There isn't really an answer for this guy. He brings the ball up so it's very hard to take the ball out of his hands, almost impossible. You can't blitz him on pick and roll because he's likely the best passers at defeating that strategy. You're asking for big trouble switching anyone not his size on him because he will bully them (like he does Ant) or gets to his spot to easily with a big on him.

I've been hard on him not being able to win due to his play style but they said the same thing about shooting too many 3s and now look.....

[RRR3]

This board is so reactionary lmao

[Carbine]

He has enough of a playoff history that it's not reactionary. There's only two people that average 31ppg or more in their playoff careers and it's him and MJ. He's also a better passer than MJ.

[RRR3]

He has enough of a playoff history that it's not reactionary. There's only two people that average 31ppg or more in their playoff careers and it's him and MJ. He's also a better passer than MJ.

Why are you comparing raw PPG without adjusting for the scoring environment lmfao. He’s literally basically the exact same player as prime James Harden. Is James Harden the offensive GOAT?

[FultzNationRISE]

I mean no, he really doesnt, because that would be Lebron. But he's probably top 10.

Luka has not exactly been consistent in these playoffs. If Kyrie doesnt step up big every time Luka's struggling in these playoffs, theyre already eliminated and we're not having this conversation.

Luka tends to wind up with his numbers regardless of how well he played in the game. And due to the nature of him essentially being great at getting tough baskets instead of being able to create easy ones, a la Lebron James, he's naturally going to have some inconsistency. Luka can catch step-back fire more than most, but it's not gonna happen every game.

He's like Kobe in that his mastery, his skill, his repertoire is through the roof... but it's just never gonna be as EFFECTIVE as a prime Lebron, Shaq, even a Jokic IMO. He doesnt get very many points at the rim and that's really the best way to guarantee consistency.

Again, I'm not saying he's not 'up there' all time. But he doesnt get enough easy baskets to be the best. The numbers themselves mean little these days, and his belie a little bit less consistency than what you get from the absolute elite.

[FultzNationRISE]

Why are you comparing raw PPG without adjusting for the scoring environment lmfao. He’s literally basically the exact same player as prime James Harden. Is James Harden the offensive GOAT?

Well OP did specify playoffs, and they are NOT the same in the playoffs.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's never played in the Finals and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any ppg, total point, or points in a game records so it's fair to say that this topic is insane.

[Carbine]

It's ok. I would t expect anything different from you guys because we are in the moment - nobody gives due credit when this is the case. And then when we are years removed, that player gets overrated to some degree.

I'm just saying. If he ain't the best offensive player, he's #2. His passing ability has a lot to do with it. He's a truly ATG passer - something MJ is not. Nor anyone that's around his caliber of scorer in the playoffs - besides Lebron.

[FultzNationRISE]

It's ok. I would t expect anything different from you guys because we are in the moment - nobody gives due credit when this is the case. And then when we are years removed, that player gets overrated to some degree.

I'm just saying. If he ain't the best offensive player, he's #2. His passing ability has a lot to do with it. He's a truly ATG passer - something MJ is not. Nor anyone that's around his caliber of scorer in the playoffs - besides Lebron.

Youre really taking Luka on offense over Jokic?

I think that's crazy personally, and I have plenty of respect for Luka's ability.

[SATAN]

I don't like Luka at all, the way he cries after every miss to the referees and his laziness of defense at times. He's the player I root against the most, I don't want to see him win anything.

You can't deny this guy's offensive ability when it matters though. Even when he was "off" last series, he still controlled the game. His ability to play the pick and roll is second to none - ever. His iso ability is the best in the league and is up there with anyone all time now that the 3 ball is falling the way it is this year.

There isn't really an answer for this guy. He brings the ball up so it's very hard to take the ball out of his hands, almost impossible. You can't blitz him on pick and roll because he's likely the best passers at defeating that strategy. You're asking for big trouble switching anyone not his size on him because he will bully them (like he does Ant) or gets to his spot to easily with a big on him.

I've been hard on him not being able to win due to his play style but they said the same thing about shooting too many 3s and now look.....

[Carbine]

They have very different play styles but equally effective at creating open shots for their teammates. Scoring wise I feel like there are answers for Jokic. He has had quite a few reps of looking very uncomfortable (last years run not withstanding) while I never get that feeling for Luka - he's always going to get his shot it's just whether he makes it or not. We can talk about how Luka ball doesn't maximize all stars but Kyrie is doing just fine with him, and it's undeniable that he raises Lively and Gaffords offensive output a lot by his ability to draw the defense and dish it off to them for dunks/easy lay ups.

[Hoon]

They have very different play styles but equally effective at creating open shots for their teammates. Scoring wise I feel like there are answers for Jokic. He has had quite a few reps of looking very uncomfortable (last years run not withstanding) while I never get that feeling for Luka - he's always going to get his shot it's just whether he makes it or not. We can talk about how Luka ball doesn't maximize all stars but Kyrie is doing just fine with him, and it's undeniable that he raises Lively and Gaffords offensive output a lot by his ability to draw the defense and dish it off to them for dunks/easy lay ups.

I get what you’re saying. They do have different styles, but both are great at setting up their teammates for open shots. Jokic can sometimes look uncomfortable, but when he's on, he’s really tough to stop. Luka, on the other hand, always seems to get his shot off no matter what.

[Wardell Curry]

This board is so reactionary lmao

Sports fans are super emotional. I mean it is tapping into tribalism, after all. Dating back to the earliest beginnings of society, when we were all dumb apes. This is why all of the morning shows are complete garbage soap operate level entertainment.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's ok. I would t expect anything different from you guys because we are in the moment - nobody gives due credit when this is the case. And then when we are years removed, that player gets overrated to some degree.

You have that completely backwards.

[Kblaze8855]

It's ok. I would t expect anything different from you guys because we are in the moment - nobody gives due credit when this is the case. And then when we are years removed, that player gets overrated to some degree.

I'm just saying. If he ain't the best offensive player, he's #2. His passing ability has a lot to do with it. He's a truly ATG passer - something MJ is not. Nor anyone that's around his caliber of scorer in the playoffs - besides Lebron.

He’s an unusually good passer at his size but there are too many point guards to have him as all time great without stretching the list to such an extent it loses all significance.

People always do that with big guys who pass well and ignore that what they do wouldn’t be terrible celebrated from a small guard.

People might argue Magic, Kidd, and Nash types….ok.

But there’s still Stockton, Paul, Mark Jackson, Isiah Thomas….

People might not even get to Rondo…Cousy gets a token mention.

And people still wanna throw Lebron in there and of course Jokic.

Luka is a great passer but he’s not some all time short list guy.

Hes on the short list of wings and big points like Lebron and Penny. As in really really nice. But you gotta stretch the goat list more than usual to fit everyone.

A big wing passes like Rod Strickland he gets goat passer talk. Rod Strickland doesn’t come up because he’s a point guard it’s expected from. It’s like calling a great rim protecting tweener, a goat caliber help defender and ignoring that 30 centers did it we just don’t give full credit because it’s expected.

I don’t have an issue with the praise…I’m just saying…a 6’8” Marbury would get that talk a lot more than a 6’2” one.