If BILL RUSSELL stays with the HAWKS instead of going to BOSTON.

[L.Kizzle]

If the Hawks (St Louis at that time) decided to keep Bill Russell, how different would NBA History look?

Just for clarity, the Hawks were the only team to beat the Russell-era Celtics in the Finals in 1958 (Celtics didn't make the Finals in 1967.) Hawks also made the Finals in 57, 60 and 61. If they didn't make the Finals, they'd usually lose the previous series to the Lakers out West.

Let's just say the Hawks keep things intact, with Russell around and now subtracting Ed Macauley and Cliff Hagan (both Hall of Famers.)

I think people are forgetting BOB PETTIT was the best player in the league post-Mikan and pre-Russell.

So you have a front court on Russell and Pettit.
Lenny Wilkens drafted in 1960
Zelmo Beaty & Bill Bridges drafted in 1962.
Jeff Mullins & Paul Silas drafted in 1964.
Lou Hudson in 1966.


They obtained the likes of All-Stars and Hall of Famers through the years including Joe Caldwell, Clyde Lovellette, Don Ohl and Richie Guerin.

They also selected 2 guys in the draft (Si Green & Cleo Hill.) Both were supposed to be super star players. With Russell's leadership, maybe that happenes.

On the other hand, what happens to Boston? Before Russel came along, while they were a playoff team being led by Bob Cousy, Bill Sharman & Ed Macauley they never got over the hump. They only made the conference Finals twice between 1950-1956.
Do the Jones Brothers, Heinsohn and Havlicek develop into the players we know today without Rusell?

[SouBeachTalents]

The Celtics probably don't win 11 rings if Bill Russell plays for the Hawks.

[Axe]

He'd still manage to win more rings than jordan.

[Xiao Yao You]

If the Hawks (St Louis at that time) decided to keep Bill Russell, how different would NBA History look?

Just for clarity, the Hawks were the only team to beat the Russell-era Celtics in the Finals in 1958 (Celtics didn't make the Finals in 1967.) Hawks also made the Finals in 57, 60 and 61. If they didn't make the Finals, they'd usually lose the previous series to the Lakers out West.

Let's just say the Hawks keep things intact, with Russell around and now subtracting Ed Macauley and Cliff Hagan (both Hall of Famers.)

I think people are forgetting BOB PETTIT was the best player in the league post-Mikan and pre-Russell.

So you have a front court on Russell and Pettit.
Lenny Wilkens drafted in 1960
Zelmo Beaty & Bill Bridges drafted in 1962.
Jeff Mullins & Paul Silas drafted in 1964.
Lou Hudson in 1966.


They obtained the likes of All-Stars and Hall of Famers through the years including Joe Caldwell, Clyde Lovellette, Don Ohl and Richie Guerin.

They also selected 2 guys in the draft (Si Green & Cleo Hill.) Both were supposed to be super star players. With Russell's leadership, maybe that happenes.

On the other hand, what happens to Boston? Before Russel came along, while they were a playoff team being led by Bob Cousy, Bill Sharman & Ed Macauley they never got over the hump. They only made the conference Finals twice between 1950-1956.
Do the Jones Brothers, Heinsohn and Havlicek develop into the players we know today without Rusell?

They wouldnt have drafted the same guys. Wouldnt have needed zelmo

[iamgine]

Red Auerbach will probably manage to get Wilt somehow.

[L.Kizzle]

They wouldnt have drafted the same guys. Wouldnt have needed zelmo

Possibly. Pettit retired 2 years after Beaty was drafted tho.
Maybe the Celtics draft Beaty and the Hawks go for Hondo since they would have had Cliff Hagan already.

[L.Kizzle]

Possibly. Pettit retired 2 years after Beaty tho.
Maybe the Celtics draft Beaty and the Hawks go for Hondo since they would have had Cliff Hagan already.

Didn't a young high school Wilt train with the Celics at one point?

[Real Men Wear Green]

The times I looked into Russell's history I somehow always glossed over him being drafted by the Hawks but this thread got me to actually notice that detail. So the Hawks have always been doing Hawk like things? Fitting.

No question the Celtic ring count goes way down and theirs goes up, though I'm definitely not saying they take all 11 Russell rings. Red Auerbach was a visionary whose specialty was taking advantage of the rules in ways others weren't thinking to and he built champ teams even after Russell retired. No question they're would have been a lot less success but he still would have got it done eventually.

[L.Kizzle]

The times I looked into Russell's history I somehow always glossed over him being drafted by the Hawks but this thread got me to actually notice that detail. So the Hawks have always been doing Hawk like things? Fitting.

No question the Celtic ring count goes way down and theirs goes up, though I'm definitely not saying they take all 11 Russell rings. Red Auerbach was a visionary whose specialty was taking advantage of the rules in ways others weren't thinking to and he built champ teams even after Russell retired. No question they're would have been a lot less success but he still would have got it done eventually.

Russell was just as much a part of that winning Expierence if not more so than Red. Russell pushes his teammates to be great, especially the Black players. Is Sam Jones the same guy without Russell?
On the other end with the Hawks, look up Cleo Hill. If Russell was pushing him instead of pushing him away like the Hawks stars allegedly did at that time.

[Street Hunger]

I wonder how Russell would feel watching so many of today's NBA centers shooting three-pointers as if they were shooting guards.

He was very smart though so I guess his response would be smart and he would say that things evolve sometimes? Or he would just strongly dislike it. I have no idea.

[Xiao Yao You]

I wonder how Russell would feel watching so many of today's NBA centers shooting three-pointers as if they were shooting guards.

He was very smart though so I guess his response would be smart and he would say that things evolve sometimes? Or he would just strongly dislike it. I have no idea.

What could he say? Have you seen his awful post game? Hed be a rim runner today

[SouBeachTalents]

What could he say? Have you seen his awful post game? Hed be a rim runner today

He wasn't even as good as Gobert.

[tpols]

What could he say? Have you seen his awful post game? Hed be a rim runner today

Out of all the GOATs Bill Russell definitely seems like he'd struggle the most today. Can't shoot a lick and no post game. Great defense obviously but the offense just wouldn't be anything close to superstar level. Somebody like Wilt OTOH would still totally dominate today. All they'd have to do is feed him in the post, there's nobody today that could guard him like Russell or Thurmond or Kareem.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Russell was just as much a part of that winning Expierence if not more so than Red. Russell pushes his teammates to be great, especially the Black players. Is Sam Jones the same guy without Russell?
On the other end with the Hawks, look up Cleo Hill. If Russell was pushing him instead of pushing him away like the Hawks stars allegedly did at that time.

I took/take no credit from Russell. It's a fact though that Auerbach built multiple dynasties. Authored 6 Celtic champions that didn't have Russell. When you consider all the talent that was compiled in that Celtic team around Russell it is a statement of fact that Auerbach was always workig on improving his teams. So there certainly wouldn't have been as much winning without Russell but Auerbach definitely would have a potential championship.

[L.Kizzle]

I took/take no credit from Russell. It's a fact though that Auerbach built multiple dynasties. Authored 6 Celtic champions that didn't have Russell. When you consider all the talent that was compiled in that Celtic team around Russell it is a statement of fact that Auerbach was always workig on improving his teams. So there certainly wouldn't have been as much winning without Russell but Auerbach definitely would have a potential championship.

Red never won before Russell. Russell's influence on the team was probably greater than Red's. When Red retired as coach, Russell was a the player-coach and they still won.