LeBron whining about "ring culture" in the NBA

[Baller234]

He is right, but he is also the wrong guy to say it given his post 2010 decisions lol.

He's not right though.

I don't think you need a championship to be considered an all time great, but there's something to be said for someone who won multiple times under different sets of circumstances.

Someone already said it here but look at Bron. He would take it as a personal insult if someone dared to put him on the same tier as Steve Nash and rightfully so.

[sdot_thadon]

He's not right though.

I don't think you need a championship to be considered an all time great, but there's something to be said for someone who won multiple times under different sets of circumstances.

Someone already said it here but look at Bron. He would take it as a personal insult if someone dared to put him on the same tier as Steve Nash and rightfully so.

If you beleive this then isn't also super disrespectful to the late great Bill Russell for ANYONE to be in the same tier as Russell he nearly has double the rings of the next great players in history.

The truth lies in context and nuance which is why lebrons never had a fair shake in these debates. Everything in lebrons career is taken at face value while the rest of nba history gets context to defend their cases. Mj himself has said a pretty similar thing in an interview and brought up Russell. Maybe we should pour on Mj too because hes doing the same thing when it comes to him and Bill. The only difference is Lebron is only 2 rings short of Mj while Mj is 5 short of Russell, a pretty substantial mark.

[Baller234]

If you beleive this then isn't also super disrespectful to the late great Bill Russell for ANYONE to be in the same tier as Russell he nearly has double the rings of the next great players in history.

The truth lies in context and nuance which is why lebrons never had a fair shake in these debates. Everything in lebrons career is taken at face value while the rest of nba history gets context to defend their cases. Mj himself has said a pretty similar thing in an interview and brought up Russell. Maybe we should pour on Mj too because hes doing the same thing when it comes to him and Bill. The only difference is Lebron is only 2 rings short of Mj while Mj is 5 short of Russell, a pretty substantial mark.

I agree there's context and nuance. You can only compare players relative to their era. But winning is still winning. Someone who led a team to multiple championships in their era is going to be on another pedestal from someone who couldn't win in theirs. That's why we don't put Steve Nash on the same tier as Olajuwon.

That's not an insult to Nash and the other all time greats who weren't as lucky, but the absolute best of the best defy luck.

[sdot_thadon]

I agree there's context and nuance. You can only compare players relative to their era. But winning is still winning. Someone who led a team to multiple championships in their era is going to be on another pedestal from someone who couldn't win in theirs. That's why we don't put Steve Nash on the same tier as Olajuwon.

That's not an insult to Nash and the other all time greats who weren't as lucky, but the absolute best of the best defy luck.

The way ive always seen it is you win a ring(as a top contributor obviously) to validate your greatness. If you can win multiple times it pretty much cements you as an ATG and a winner. From there circumstance takes the wheel and your career plays out the way it plays out, sometimes circumstance keeps a great player from reaching their potential too. I think its fair to compare across eras as long as its done responsibly, with context and nuance. I never believed something could "take away" from a players legacy. I never saw that until Kobe and Lebron. And I think lebron is just speaking for great players who weren't able to win. One of them is an idol of his (Iverson) another is one of his best friends (Melo) and I agree the whole ring culture fad is toxic and honestly a lazy ass way to debate hoops for my money.

[Baller234]

The way ive always seen it is you win a ring(as a top contributor obviously) to validate your greatness. If you can win multiple times it pretty much cements you as an ATG and a winner. From there circumstance takes the wheel and your career plays out the way it plays out, sometimes circumstance keeps a great player from reaching their potential too. I think its fair to compare across eras as long as its done responsibly, with context and nuance. I never believed something could "take away" from a players legacy. I never saw that until Kobe and Lebron. And I think lebron is just speaking for great players who weren't able to win. One of them is an idol of his (Iverson) another is one of his best friends (Melo) and I agree the whole ring culture fad is toxic and honestly a lazy ass way to debate hoops for my money.

But guys like Melo weren't winners for a reason. It's not like there's a grand conspiracy here to keep him out of ATG discussions.

He was a great talent but more than talent is required to win at the highest level.

[sdot_thadon]

But guys like Melo weren't winners for a reason. It's not like there's a grand conspiracy here to keep him out of ATG discussions.

He was a great talent but more than talent is required to win at the highest level.

Not a winner according to who? People who watch from home? That guy won a national championship when he was a kid before the NBA. Narrative made by fans aren't the end all be all on players. If Melo was drafted by that dumbass in Detroit hed be seen as a winner. If Iverson was drafted to the Lakers instead of Kobe, hed be seen as a winner. Its not fair to guys who had tougher circumstances to winning to be judged agaisnt people who fell into great situations without acknowledging that fact.

[Axe]

But guys like Melo weren't winners for a reason. It's not like there's a grand conspiracy here to keep him out of ATG discussions.

He was a great talent but more than talent is required to win at the highest level.

Just curious. What do you think of arvydas sabonis? Some braindead casual here actually thought that he became an all-star even if that never happened at all. Anyway, i brought him up because many people and fans love to judge these players by taking a look at their resume in the nba if they did participate in it. But guys like him have had a much grand career or something like that outside of it, which is why he still ended up being in the hof.

[Full Court]

Just curious. What do you think of arvydas sabonis? Some braindead casual here actually thought that he became an all-star even if that never happened at all. Anyway, i brought him up because many people and fans love to judge these players by taking a look at their resume in the nba if they did participate in it. But guys like him have had a much grand career or something like that outside of it, which is why he still ended up being in the hof.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...-Final-Bracket

[Baller234]

Not a winner according to who? People who watch from home? That guy won a national championship when he was a kid before the NBA. Narrative made by fans aren't the end all be all on players. If Melo was drafted by that dumbass in Detroit hed be seen as a winner. If Iverson was drafted to the Lakers instead of Kobe, hed be seen as a winner. Its not fair to guys who had tougher circumstances to winning to be judged agaisnt people who fell into great situations without acknowledging that fact.

Carmelo played in 16 playoff series in his career and won 3.

His playoff record is 23-55.

He made it to the 3rd round once and made it to the 2nd round once.

I understand that not everyone is lucky to play with other all time greats, but sorry that's not the resume of a winning player. Yes I know he won in college but talent gets you further in college than it does in the pros.

[GOBB]

Hes kind of right and OKC is showing it right now.

A guy like Tmac never made it out of the 1st round... you think he couldnt do that with this thunder team? Hes basically a 6'9 longer stronger tougher SGA.

He went up 3-1 in a series. All Tmac
He lost 3-1 series. All team

Never made it past rd 1 with Rockets. All team
Rockets made it to 2nd rd the year Tmac was injured. All Tmac…wait what

[sdot_thadon]

Carmelo played in 16 playoff series in his career and won 3.

His playoff record is 23-55.

He made it to the 3rd round once and made it to the 2nd round once.

I understand that not everyone is lucky to play with other all time greats, but sorry that's not the resume of a winning player. Yes I know he won in college but talent gets you further in college than it does in the pros.

Also in tbe international environment he was a standout amongst the best players in the world. Hes a winner, he just didn't have the situation to win in the NBA. I'll give you a hot take. Idolized Mj as a teen as much as anyone here....but, you mean to tell me prime Melo wasn't capable of doing what 2nd 3peat Mj did at least offensively? He had the perfect toolbox for the specific role. I had to bold the 2nd 3peat so nobody gets the idea im.saying Melo is Mj. And this is coming from someone who never really was a Melo fan.

[LAL]

Also in tbe international environment he was a standout amongst the best players in the world. Hes a winner, he just didn't have the situation to win in the NBA. I'll give you a hot take. Idolized Mj as a teen as much as anyone here....but, you mean to tell me prime Melo wasn't capable of doing what 2nd 3peat Mj did at least offensively? He had the perfect toolbox for the specific role. I had to bold the 2nd 3peat so nobody gets the idea im.saying Melo is Mj. And this is coming from someone who never really was a Melo fan.

What if prime KD, Wade or Kobe replaced 2nd 3peat MJ offensively? What if MJ or Kobe replaced Lebron on the Heatles? What if

[sdot_thadon]

What if prime KD, Wade or Kobe replaced 2nd 3peat MJ offensively? What if MJ or Kobe replaced Lebron on the Heatles? What if

Just went ahead and stuck your finger in the socket on this one huh? Honestly any of those guys you mentioned could replace 2nd 3 peat Mj to a reasonable degree enough to win a chip, offensively they all have pretty complete offensive packages. Kobe or Mj couldn't replace LeBron on the heatles only based on his versatility. For example when bosh got hurt he was able to operate as the defacto big and anchor the defense. Meanwhile neither of those guys could win popsicle sticks without tough bigmen. All these guys are great players but they cant all fill each other's roles. My point was prime melos offensive game is as good as any great players game.

[LAL]

Just went ahead and stuck your finger in the socket on this one huh? Honestly any of those guys you mentioned could replace 2nd 3 peat Mj to a reasonable degree enough to win a chip, offensively they all have pretty complete offensive packages. Kobe or Mj couldn't replace LeBron on the heatles only based on his versatility. For example when bosh got hurt he was able to operate as the defacto big and anchor the defense. Meanwhile neither of those guys could win popsicle sticks without tough bigmen. All these guys are great players but they cant all fill each other's roles. My point was prime melos offensive game is as good as any great players game.

Glad i exposed you. Thank you.

Melo can replace second 3peat MJ offensively but none of them could
replace legoofy's 2/4 with the Heatles.

I hate you bron stans ugh

[sdot_thadon]

Glad i exposed you. Thank you.

Melo can replace second 3peat MJ offensively but none of them could
replace legoofy's 2/4 with the Heatles.

I hate you bron stans ugh

Only thing you expose is your inability to stick to a single account to post here, you ain't fooling anybody. On another note. If you watched Mj, 1st 3peat Mj was the otherworldly one of a kind guy, 2nd 3peat Mj is the guy Kobe was able to replicate to the degree that made him atg. Those other guys were offensive legends in their prime, 2nd 3peat Mj was a bit past his, his mind and adjustments to his game was the thing that allowed him to continue being great when he wasn't flying as much anymore.

What Lebron did for the heat was a broader role than Kobe or Mj ever had. Period. Even in their primes. He was obviously their go to scorer as well as their engine to make the offense work. He was also at some point their defensive anchor and covered so much on that end. He was also their closer....you get the picture. He was anything the heat needed him to be to win games. Any hole that needed to be filled he did that. Quit embarrassing yourself.