Haliburton, Tatum, Lillard torn Achilles: freak accidents or noteworthy trend?

[GOBB]

During a live NBA Finals watch party on Gil's Arena, former NBA All-Star Gilbert Arenas revealed that both Lillard and Tatum told him they had been dealing with calf issues prior to their injuries.

"Even with Jayson Tatum when I asked him about the Achilles — and Dame — [I asked] was your calf hurting before? And they both said yes," Arenas said

Something I just came across

[Cangri]

I think them changing the shot clock reset to 14 seconds after offensive rebounds in 2018, instead of the old 24 seconds has def sped up the game and also contributed to the injuries.

[Phoenix]

Haliburton blew his Achilles because he had a calf injury in the finals. That was the net result. From non pro athletes who played sports. From pro athletes (podcasts). They all suggested he shouldn’t have played on the calf. They know why but they also said the risk of that happening was high. And how calf injuries are nothing to play with. Dame didn’t play 82gms. I want to say he got injured game 58? So the weak spot is what 30 games of wear and tear you’re less likely and over 50 you enter the danger zone? No one knows the answer to that. They just say shorten the season, less wear and tear. No one knows if these explosive moves are a result of wear and tear or other issues. Or a combination of all of the above. Seems multilayered. Also seems one case isn’t the same as another.

I dont know why these 3 blew their Achilles. I’ve read and listened to informed folks in the sports world or who have torn their Achilles before. Nothing about the long season being a result of these injuries seem to be the theme.

I don’t have a solution. I don’t concretely know why these 3 blew their Achilles. I just don’t think making the season 35 games would reduce these injuries. If haliburton doesn’t injure his calf he doesn’t blow his Achilles. But then we can say wear and tear to why he injured his calf huh?

No, he 'shouldn't' have played on the calf. If this was a regular season game, hell if it was game 5 of the ECFs, he likely sits out. Game 7 of the finals? It's do or die time, and unfortunately he paid the price. The obvious alternate reality is he doesn't play, he gets over the strained calf and he's ready to go for next year. This was a worst case 'shit happens' scenario.

You are correct in two things I already said, no one knows the answer nor do any of us have solutions. The players are covering more ground than before. Like, someone above posted this about the miles today's players are incurring. So that's basically objective reality. And I would say that leading to increased wear and tear is a reasonable cause and effect assumption. Correlating all of that as to why we're getting all these Achilles issues is the speculation part, I don't claim to say reducing games is the definitive solution. Only that I don't know how else they would go about trying to tackle it if you don't start from the premise that the players will naturally have less wear and tear from less games, and then maybe you look at ways to slow down the game in some way along with the change in gear/training. How many miles are teams covering on average per game? Is there a way to reduce that without severely impacting the minute to minute action, and the reality that the 3pointer is something that will only continue to go up in attempts, not down, so the court coverage will not change. Multi-faceted issues, multi-faceted responses. Or....do nothing? I mean as I said before, there's only a few ways they can go here or just leave it as is and scratch our heads every-time someone's Achilles splits in two.

Load management is the end result of some nerd in the back looking at the data on player miles over a game, game pace, minutes played, games played, and coming to a conclusion that the players are playing too fast, covering too much ground, and for too many games. It's very much a multilayered problem just off the basis that players bodies will react to the stresses the games put on them differently, that's not just an Achilles issue, that's for any player at any point in the games history where you have some players who are durable or somewhat durable and someone who is more injury-prone. From what I read, 7 players this year had Achilles related injuries. What's the connection? Why them?

[90sgoat]

It's the low cut shoes.

They're like running shoes, no ankle support.

[Phoenix]

Something I just came across

I looked up KD's injury history before the Achilles. The immediate one before the Achilles on 6/10/19..... Calf on 5/9/19. So we may be onto something. In all of these cases these guys went out to play before they were ready to, maybe based on the urgency of the moment, and paid the price. I can't find anything on Kobe calf-wise but I get the sense he ran his legs into the ground getting the Lakers into the playoffs that year and it cost him. These are all perimeter players out on the wings having this issue. Someone like Jokic isn't going to get an Achilles tear, plays too slow and methodical. Luka had several calf-related injury notes on his report this year, but I suspect at the pace he plays he's not at large risk either, but I can only guess.

[GOBB]

I looked up KD's injury history before the Achilles. The immediate one before the Achilles on 6/10/19..... Calf on 5/9/19. So we may be onto something. In all of these cases these guys went out to play before they were ready to, maybe based on the urgency of the moment, and paid the price. I can't find anything on Kobe calf-wise but I get the sense he ran his legs into the ground getting the Lakers into the playoffs that year and it cost him. These are all perimeter players out on the wings having this issue. Someone like Jokic isn't going to get an Achilles tear, plays too slow and methodical. Luka had several calf-related injury notes on his report this year, but I suspect at the pace he plays he's not at large risk either, but I can only guess.

Wow nice find on Durant. So I saw you mentioned Kobe and decided to dig a little…

Yes, Kobe Bryant had a history of battling calf issues before he ultimately ruptured his Achilles tendon in 2013.

Here's why this is significant:
Calf and Achilles connection: The calf muscles are connected to the Achilles tendon. Overworking or injuring the calf can place increased stress on the Achilles, making it more vulnerable to a tear.
Pushing through: Players like Kobe Bryant, who are known for their competitive drive, often push through minor calf discomfort, potentially risking more severe damage.
The brutal stretch leading up to the injury: In the weeks leading up to his Achilles tear, Bryant played a demanding schedule, often logging significant minutes. This could have further exacerbated any underlying calf issues.
While a calf strain may not always lead to an Achilles rupture, ignoring the warning signs and continuing to play with pain can increase the risk. Kobe's dedication and the Lakers' playoff push might have factored into his continued playing despite any potential calf problems

[Phoenix]

Wow nice find on Durant. So I saw you mentioned Kobe and decided to dig a little…

So yeah.....Mike Brown pretty much ran Kobe into the ground in 2013, not good for someone with a background of calf issues and his legendary( but perhaps ill-fated) ethic of playing with injuries. He also did employ a good deal of athleticism in his game on top of his existing skillset, and we're talking a guy who had logged HEAVY minutes by that point. Then you have someone like Lebron who's had insane minutes over his career playing a high impact game, and his entire 2023 season had 'calf' all season long as injury notes, he played 55 games but never blew out his Achilles ( and he seems acutely aware of his body, so there's that). It's hard to find the connective tissue with all these injuries of late as far as the player profile, we can only point to the game itself.

[Phoenix]

Wow nice find on Durant. So I saw you mentioned Kobe and decided to dig a little…

So yeah.....Mike Brown pretty much ran Kobe into the ground in 2013, not good for someone with a background of calf issues and his legendary( but perhaps ill-fated) ethic of playing with injuries. He also did employ a good deal of athleticism in his game on top of his existing skillset, and we're talking a guy who had logged HEAVY minutes by that point. Then you have someone like Lebron who's had insane minutes over his career playing a high impact game, and his entire 2023 season had 'calf' all season long as injury notes, he played 55 games but never blew out his Achilles ( and he seems acutely aware of his body, so there's that). It's hard to find the connective tissue with all these injuries of late as far as the player profile, we can only point to the game itself.

EDIT: Can I just say what the fukk with these double posts? This is like my third one in the last 20 minutes or so. Would be nice if the admins took a bit of money out of what they pay 3ball to spam threads and fix the problem. Too much to ask?

[jstern]

Whenever I go play, I'm freaked out about the possibility of tearing my Achilles, so I've researched this a lot just for peace of mind. The calf muscles absolve a lot of the energy, and when it's injured, more force and mechanical stress is transferred to the Achilles tendon. Also, long layoffs, calfs getting atrophied, that's why it's common for a tear to happen to people who only play basketball in the weekend.

I think more posting up would help NBA players.

[Hakkim90cc]

Tim Grover explains why there are more Injuries happening in today's game.

https://streamable.com/4gf6b9

Just look at Zion

[ArbitraryWater]

Interesting finds here.


looks like theres a common denominator: lightskin anatomy

[Kblaze8855]

Last night I was Talking about how the increase in using the three-pointer to pump fake and drive has to lead to an increase in that motion and I woke up this morning to a bunch of discussions about this:






apparently, it’s been pretty heavily beaten into guys the last 10 years or so as threes have increased. It’s the footwork they’re teaching you to use to go by when you get someone to bite on the fake.


teams are out here taking 50 threes at times. How many of them are pump fakes into this drive? The amount of stress on that part of the body has to go up considerably.


Guys taking five or six hundreds threes and near as many pump fakes. How many full power push-off using that tendon you think happen these days that wouldn’t have happened 30 years ago running more plays and with considerably more post ups that would send your body the opposite direction?

seriously. Who do you think is more likely to put a massive amount of stress on that tendon? A guard who posted up to get into the paint or one who fakes the shot and explodes to the basket like that from 28 feet seven times a game for 10 years and just as much in practice?

am I overthinking it?

[jstern]

Last night I was Talking about how the increase in using the three-pointer to pump fake and drive has to lead to an increase in that motion and I woke up this morning to a bunch of discussions about this:






apparently, it’s been pretty heavily beaten into guys the last 10 years or so as threes have increased. It’s the footwork they’re teaching you to use to go by when you get someone to bite on the fake.


teams are out here taking 50 threes at times. How many of them are pump fakes into this drive? The amount of stress on that part of the body has to go up considerably.


Guys taking five or six hundreds threes and near as many pump fakes. How many full power push-off using that tendon you think happen these days that wouldn’t have happened 30 years ago running more plays and with considerably more post ups that would send your body the opposite direction?

seriously. Who do you think is more likely to put a massive amount of stress on that tendon? A guard who posted up to get into the paint or one who fakes the shot and explodes to the basket like that from 28 feet seven times a game for 10 years and just as much in practice?

am I overthinking it?

That's the foot work that I wanted to talk about in my previous post, but I didn't have a proper name for it. What I've been doing is that instead of stepping back with my foot align straight with my leg, which puts all the weight on your toes, I've been tilting the foot around 45 degrees more outward from the heal, putting all the weight mainly on my big toe. I don't know if it puts less stress on the Achilles, so I just don't do that move as often, but if you stand up and try the two styles, putting all of your weight on the big toe area feels a lot more solid.

[Walk on Water]

The answer is not to reduce games. It's to go back to traditional basketball. This is another reason why there needs to be less 3s. It's ironic because we thought we were seeing players extend their careers by playing this soft basketball. But it's hurting people because they aren't tough enough. The only way to toughen them up is to get them playing contact ball again and learn how to post up and hand check. Less running, but a more balanced physical approach. They might get more bumps and bruises, but there will be less achilles tears.

[Phoenix]

The answer is not to reduce games. It's to go back to traditional basketball. This is another reason why there needs to be less 3s. It's ironic because we thought we were seeing players extend their careers by playing this soft basketball. But it's hurting people because they aren't tough enough. The only way to toughen them up is to get them playing contact ball again and learn how to post up and hand check. Less running, but a more balanced physical approach. They might get more bumps and bruises, but there will be less achilles tears.

That's the problem as I said before: they're not going back to 'traditional' basketball unless they outright eliminate the 3 or cap attempts. Or push it the line out 3 feet and eliminate the corner 3. Teams are now basing their offense specifically around creating 3 point opportunities. I think many(most?) of us would like a return to more diversified offenses, teams and players as the whole thing feels homogenized now, but I don't know how they get that horse back in the barn.