Is Gary Payton somewhat overrated as a defender?

[Phoenix]

After a quick search. Payton, Smart, & Cooper in their DPOY seasons also did not lead their team in those 3 advanced defensive metrics I just posted. Which seems about right, all 3 were known for their man defense and defensive guards who specialize in man defense doesn't really show in advanced stats. There is no stat to track man defense & wing defenders who are mostly man defenders usually have limited impact compared to bigs who can patrol the paint.

Yeah. As I was saying above, if there was one perimeter player in that period who actually justified a DPOY it was Scottie. He was right up there in 95 with Robinson, Ewing, Mutumbo in defensive metrics in spite of being a wing defender which is crazy. He had a better case in 95 than Payton did over Robinson in 96, interestingly enough.

[1987_Lakers]

2004 Pacers

DRTG
O'Neal: 93
Artest: 96

DPM
Artest: 1.9
O'Neal: 1.3

DWS
O'Neal: 6.3
Artest: 5.2

Probably just highlights how good of a defender O'Neal was, doesn't get talked about anymore and it's amazing to me how he never made an All-Defensive team.

He was labeled a C/PF so he was competing against Duncan, Garnett, Mutombo, Big Ben & Kirilenko.

Should have at least made the team a couple of times.

[SouBeachTalents]

2004 Pacers

DRTG
O'Neal: 93
Artest: 96

DPM
Artest: 1.9
O'Neal: 1.3

DWS
O'Neal: 6.3
Artest: 5.2

Probably just highlights how good of a defender O'Neal was, doesn't get talked about anymore and it's amazing to me how he never made an All-Defensive team.

He was labeled a C/PF so he was competing against Duncan, Garnett, Mutombo, Big Ben & Kirilenko.

Should have at least made the team a couple of times.

I never even noticed he never made an All-Defensive Team, other worthy guys like Sheed & Marion never made it either.

[1987_Lakers]

I never even noticed he never made an All-Defensive Team, other worthy guys like Sheed & Marion never made it either.

I remember Bill Russell saying back in the 00's that Jermaine O'Neal is the player that reminds him of himself.

Yeah. As I was saying above, if there was one perimeter player in that period who actually justified a DPOY it was Scottie. He was right up there in 95 with Robinson, Ewing, Mutumbo in defensive metrics in spite of being a wing defender which is crazy. He had a better case in 95 than Payton did over Robinson in 96, interestingly enough.

Yea, '95 Pippen is probably the GOAT defensive season by a perimeter player.

No Horace Grant, no MJ for 65 games, Longley missed 25+ games, but to still lead the Bulls to the #2 defense is quite crazy. Very rare for a perimeter player to have that type of defensive impact. His defensive metrics that season are also off the charts.

[Axe]

Which year op? Is this a shot at jordan again?

[Lakers Legend#32]

The Glove overrated as a defender?

Hell NO!

[ELITEpower23]

145lb
6'2

Guarding traffic cones? What do you think haha