3ball just got destroyed and exposed as a liar

[1987_Lakers]

MJ fam taking major L's this week. This comes right after walk on water made that thread and got caught lying about how many times LeBron lost as a favorite.

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All-NBA selections that won 20-40 games since 1980 (2nd options in bold)

1980 Dantley - 24 wins
1981 Dantley - 28 wins
1982 Dantley - 25 wins
1983 Isiah - 37 wins
1985 Jordan - 37 wins
1986 Robertson - 35 wins
1987 Lever - 37 wins
1990 Mullin - 37 wins
1991 King - 30 wins
1992 Willis - 34 wins
1993 Hardaway - 34 wins
1994 Dominique - 27 wins
1994 Richmond - 27 wins
1998 Richmond - 28 wins
1995 Richmond - 39 wins
1996 Richmond - 39 wins
1997 Richmond - 34 wins
2000 Marbury - 31 wins
2004 McGrady - 21 wins
2005 Lebron - 35 wins
2012 Chandler - 36 wins
2012 Melo - 36 wins
2012 Love - 26 wins
2012 Dwight - 37 wins
2015 Cousins - 29 wins
2016 Cousins - 33 wins
2017 AD - 34 wins
2019 Kemba - 39 wins
2020 Lillard - 35 wins
2023 Luka - 38 wins

CONCLUSION: 2nd options need winning teams to make All-NBA, with only 4 exceptions in 40 years.. They need winning spotlight to be seen as All-NBA because their dominance isn't enough on it's own.. Otoh, 1st options routinely dominate enough to make All-NBA with losing teams... Essentially, All-NBA is reserved for 1st options, unless a secondary option has sufficient winning spotlight.

So let's see:

- You lied about Adrian Dantley, he didn't make all-NBA in 80 and 82. Off the list those years
- Isiah was 2nd option to Tripucka in 83, so that argument works for me thanks
- Dominique won 42 wins in 94 per basketball reference, playing 25 for the Clips and 49 for ATL. Nice try, he's off the list.
- Lebron won 42 games in 2004-2005. The 35 wins you're giving his is for his rookie year. Off the list
- 2012 Chandler is a defensive big,so since you count him you've legitimized guys like Bogut, Drummond, Mutumbo, Horford, thanks
- 2012 is also a asterisk year due to lockout, 66 game season but the Knicks were 36-30 so Melo/Chandler had a winning season that year. Nice try
- Dwight missed 28 games and missed out on 40 wins by 3 games.
- 2020 was a shortened season due to lockdowns, asterisk
- Luka missed out on 40 wins by 2 wins, missing 16 games

CONCLUSION: You lied about Adrian Dantley in 1980 and 82 being all-NBA those years, Isiah was 2nd option to Tripucka in 83, lied about 94 Nique who got 42 total wins playing for both the Hawks( 49) and the Clippers( 25) and you sneakily gave him the Clips 27 win total when he didn't even play that many games for LA , lied about Lebron giving his rookie win total of 35 wins instead of 42 in 2005 when he made 2nd team, ignore that 2012 was a 66 game lockout year and then pretend like Melo and Chandler didn't have a winning record at 36/30, 2020 was pandemic year shortened season, and Luka wins 40+ if he didn't miss 16 games.

So, your actual list of first options for which you didn't lie( 80 and 82 Dantley, 94 Wilkins, 05 Lebron), not note legit asterisks for why a player wouldn't have easily broke 40 wins( Luka 2023) if not for serious time missed to injury or shortened seasons( Melo 2012, Dame 2020), meaning the player played the majority of the year and wouldn't have gotten 40 wins because the team just was that bad/mediocre:

- Adrian Dantley 82
- Jordan 85
- Mullin 90
- Richmond 94-98( which is actually one player just getting in multiple times instead of multiple players, but I'll play along)'
- Maybury 2000
- Tmac 2004
- Cousins 2015
- Cousins 2016 won 33 whlle missing 17, but we'll let that one slip
- AD 2017
- Kemba 2020

That's very far from there being 'tons' of first options who made all-nba with 20-40 wins, and that's if you include players who missed 16-28 games and act like they wouldn't have won 40 games in some cases,weren't impacted by lockout, or ignore that a few players happened to benefit from periods of weak positional competition ( Richmond winning 27 games, for example) that largely wouldn't fly today. Heaps of context needed here that you conveniently omit.

OTOH 83 Isiah can now be added to my list of non-first option players so you'll appreciate me bolding him, who made all-NBA without 'winning spotlight' inflation like 85 Alvin Robertson,87 Fat Lever, 92 Kevin Willis, 93 Derrick Coleman, 93 Hardaway( bolded him as well for your convenience),96 Juwan Howard,97 Vin Baker, 98 Rod Strickland, 02 Mutumbo( defensive centric big like CHandler), 06 Yao Ming, 2013 David Lee, 2016 Andre Drummond( defensive big like Chandler), 2018 KAT, 2011 Horford( defensive big like CHandler), 2023/2024 Sabonis. These players were either 2nd option/scorer for the years I listed, or 2nd/3rd best player like a Mutumbo or Strickland type BUT more specifically, were not the defacto first options for those years. If they were definitive first option in other years, like Coleman in 94, doesn't dismiss that he was 2nd option to Petrovic in 93. Furthermore the lists provided here by both of us, regardless of how certain players are described for the purpose of our respective arguments, show recent voting patterns clearly indicating that players getting all-NBA whether they be first or 2nd option on sub 40 win teams is becoming even less common in recent years, let alone over history. The historical record of the past 5 seasons as I listed shows that outside of Luka in 2023 getting 38 wins while missing 16 games, Kemba in 2019, and 2020 Dame in a lockout year, the voters aren't handing out all-NBA awards like candy to sub 40 win players. There's no Mitch Richmonds getting all-nba for 27 wins in the year 2025, not when over the past 5-6 years Devin Booker has seasons averaging 26-28 on 50 win teams and doesn't touch all-NBA.

[jlip]

Saying that 3Ball lied and got destroyed in a post is like saying water is wet, or the sun is hot.

No one can convince me that he is not a paid actor who is just here to generate traffic on slow days.

[3ba11]

Saying that 3Ball lied and got destroyed in a post is like saying water is wet, or the sun is hot.

No one can convince me that he is not a paid actor who is just here to generate traffic on slow days.

I don't make opinions - I state historical record and back it up with linked stats and linked sources.

In this case, 2nd options require winning teams to make All-NBA, while 1st options make All-NBA with losing teams because they dominate

Jordan made All-NBA with a 37-win team, while Pippen or Klay required 67 wins and crazy winning spotlight to be seen as All-NBA

[ArbitraryWater]

This pretty much firms LeBron‘s grip on the GOAT spot for me.

[Axe]

Saying that 3Ball lied and got destroyed in a post is like saying water is wet, or the sun is hot.

No one can convince me that he is not a paid actor who is just here to generate traffic on slow days.

True. Everyone who's frequently here already knows about it. Not sure why it's still thread-worthy.

[Walk on Water]

The only reason why you're saying I'm lying is I said Lebron didn't win as the favorite 7 times. It's 5 times in the playoffs and an additional 2 seasons where he didn't MAKE the playoffs but was supposed to. And yet you call me lying only because I'm trying to HELP you not lose by so much in your argument. That is LYING? By lying in your favor? And you brag about not making the playoffs? Please. You Lebron fans live in a delusional world. There's nothing brag worthy about losing as the favorite 7 times, even if 2 of those times are technically not making the playoffs at all. And it still doesn't change my point that Jordan is 6 and 0 and only lost in the playoffs once as the favorite. No matter how you spin it. Bragging about missing the playoffs doesn't favor your side of the story. Ridiculous. The fact that this is all you got means you're only using this because you have nothing to argue for.


I could say Lebron is 5 and 6 in the Finals and you would call me a liar. Even though it only helped you.

[ShawkFactory]

The only reason why you're saying I'm lying is I said Lebron didn't win as the favorite 7 times. It's 5 times in the playoffs and an additional 2 seasons where he didn't MAKE the playoffs but was supposed to. And yet you call me lying only because I'm trying to HELP you not lose by so much in your argument. That is LYING? By lying in your favor? And you brag about not making the playoffs? Please. You Lebron fans live in a delusional world. There's nothing brag worthy about losing as the favorite 7 times, even if 2 of those times are technically not making the playoffs at all. And it still doesn't change my point that Jordan is 6 and 0 and only lost in the playoffs once as the favorite. No matter how you spin it. Bragging about missing the playoffs doesn't favor your side of the story. Ridiculous. The fact that this is all you got means you're only using this because you have nothing to argue for.


I could say Lebron is 5 and 6 in the Finals and you would call me a liar. Even though it only helped you.

[Full Court]

MJ fam taking major L's this week. This comes right after walk on water made that thread and got caught lying about how many times LeBron lost as a favorite.

Wow. This bitch is SHOOK.



OP gets destroyed and exposed as an idiot on a daily basis by Full Court.

[3ba11]

The only reason why you're saying I'm lying is I said Lebron didn't win as the favorite 7 times. It's 5 times in the playoffs and an additional 2 seasons where he didn't MAKE the playoffs but was supposed to. And yet you call me lying only because I'm trying to HELP you not lose by so much in your argument. That is LYING? By lying in your favor? And you brag about not making the playoffs? Please. You Lebron fans live in a delusional world. There's nothing brag worthy about losing as the favorite 7 times, even if 2 of those times are technically not making the playoffs at all. And it still doesn't change my point that Jordan is 6 and 0 and only lost in the playoffs once as the favorite. No matter how you spin it. Bragging about missing the playoffs doesn't favor your side of the story. Ridiculous. The fact that this is all you got means you're only using this because you have nothing to argue for.


I could say Lebron is 5 and 6 in the Finals and you would call me a liar. Even though it only helped you.

This is their way of avoiding the truth and addressing the issue of Lebron losing so many times as the favorite.

They'll avoid this harsh truth by finding a spelling error and harping on it like you defrauded them out of house and home.

They're victims of fraud and are in denial

[Walk on Water]

This is their way of avoiding the truth and addressing the issue of Lebron losing so many times as the favorite.

They'll avoid this harsh truth by finding a spelling error and harping on it like you defrauded them out of house and home.

They're victims of fraud and are in denial

Exactly. If they find one spelling error, that destroys everything we wrote. So Lebron lost as favorite in the playoffs only FIVE times to Jordan's one time, but when I point out the 2 times he missed the playoffs as favorites to make the playoffs, they call me a liar when all that does it make them look even WORSE because they're now defending him for missing the play-in with Davis and Westbrook. Sure they are right technically, but it only bodes worse for them now that they're arguing from that position.

They give me a headache, 3 ball 11. This is a new low, even for them.

And how does that make you the GOAT whether you missed it 5 times or 7 times as the favorite?

[3ba11]

Exactly. If they find one spelling error, that destroys everything we wrote. So Lebron lost as favorite in the playoffs only FIVE times to Jordan's one time, but when I point out the 2 times he missed the playoffs as favorites to make the playoffs, they call me a liar when all that does it make them look even WORSE because they're now defending him for missing the play-in with Davis and Westbrook. Sure they are right technically, but it only bodes worse for them now that they're arguing from that position.

They give me a headache, 3 ball 11. This is a new low, even for them.

And how does that make you the GOAT whether you missed it 5 times or 7 times as the favorite?

Here's a table from another thread that shows preseason expectation vs actual result, and Lebron fails the preseason expectation a lot (in red):






Note:
* The Cavs started the season as 4th favorite and should be in championship window, but dropped back to 5th following the Lakers trade for Gasol. For this reason, the 2007-2008 season does not count as a championship window year for Lebron.
** The Lakers were favorite to win in pre-season and remained as favorite even after the Nets Harden trade. For this reason, the 2020-2021 season is considered a Championship Favorite Year for Lebron.

[Walk on Water]

Here's a table from another thread that shows preseason expectation vs actual result, and Lebron fails the preseason expectation a lot (in red):






Note:
* The Cavs started the season as 4th favorite and should be in championship window, but dropped back to 5th following the Lakers trade for Gasol. For this reason, the 2007-2008 season does not count as a championship window year for Lebron.
** The Lakers were favorite to win in pre-season and remained as favorite even after the Nets Harden trade. For this reason, the 2020-2021 season is considered a Championship Favorite Year for Lebron.

Well, that looks like a solid 7 SEASONS where Lebron and his team failed. So I wasn't wrong at all. I was correct. They wanna quibble over little things that don't even favor their argument, but weaken it.

On top of that, there's also times like in 07 when Lebron shot 35 percent in the Finals or in 2015 when Lebron shot 39 percent and Iguodala won FMVP. They wanna look at the fact Lebron won 2 games, but don't count the 4 losses.

[Walk on Water]

Here's a table from another thread that shows preseason expectation vs actual result, and Lebron fails the preseason expectation a lot (in red):






Note:
* The Cavs started the season as 4th favorite and should be in championship window, but dropped back to 5th following the Lakers trade for Gasol. For this reason, the 2007-2008 season does not count as a championship window year for Lebron.
** The Lakers were favorite to win in pre-season and remained as favorite even after the Nets Harden trade. For this reason, the 2020-2021 season is considered a Championship Favorite Year for Lebron.

Well, that looks like a solid 7 SEASONS where Lebron and his team failed. So I wasn't wrong at all. I was correct. They wanna quibble over little things that don't even favor their argument, but weaken it.

On top of that, there's also times like in 07 when Lebron shot 35 percent in the Finals or in 2015 when Lebron shot 39 percent and Iguodala won FMVP. They wanna look at the fact Lebron won 2 games, but don't count the 4 losses.

[1987_Lakers]

That chart has 1995 as "above expectations" for MJ even though the Bulls were Vegas favorites vs Orlando and lost.

3ball caught lying again.

[Full Court]

That chart has 1995 as "above expectations" for MJ even though the Bulls were Vegas favorites vs Orlando and lost.

3ball caught lying again.

^Bitch is DESPERATE.


and SHOOK.