How do you go about ranking Kobe Bryant?

[tpols]

But overall, yeah Kobes polarizing nature gets him more inconsistent hate than most.

Like Kawhi for example... nobody hates on Kawhi because he's quiet. I've always repped Kawhi. But if Kobe won with Marc Gasol / Serge Ibaka / Siakam frontcourt... everybody would say he was carried by his big men. Even if he hung ~ 30/5/5 just like Kawhi did.

Shit Siakam had a better Game 1 than any game of Paus career in the 2019 Finals.



And people barely talked about it. If Siakam did that for Kobe we'd never hear the end of it.

Kobe got hate for not beating the stacked Suns as a 7 seed. To get credit he basically would have to win a ring with G-leaguers but even then thered be an excuse.

[ShawkFactory]

I literally didn't use any arithmetic whatsoever in that whole post. Just words. You've lost the plot yet again mate.

Never change.

[Phoenix]

I remember somebody said if he got drafted to Charlotte he'd never win. Charlotte was a 50+ win playoff team starting in 1998 in a weak East. So he definitely could've won.

That would make an interesting Disney 'What If' season 3. You have to suppose, ignore, and assume quite a few things for that to play out however you're imagining them to.

[elementally morale]

Kobe got hate for not beating the stacked Suns as a 7 seed. To get credit he basically would have to win a ring with G-leaguers but even then thered be an excuse.

Look at it this way. Part of his greatness was him being a polarizing figure. (MJ was the same he was just a bit better and won more.) Kobe is not Kobe if he is universally loved. It works for some guys but it's rare. Most of the time if you are almost universally liked you were not that interesting. A huge chunk of the reason I enjoyed Kobe were his shortcomings and faults. It entertained me. He was absolutely human. Not boring. Some people hate him for the very same things I enjoyed following his journey. He may have tailored his game after MJ and some others (most people do) but as a personality he wasn't the 2nd this and that. He was Kobe. Why would anyone hate Tim Duncan? But why would anyone really love Tim Duncan? Even if we can all agree on him being a great dude and the 'by the book professional'. We do. But... he is just not interesting enough to hate on some 15 years later. So as for Kobe's legacy, him having some haters is not a bad thing. You saw him, you remember him. And by the vast majority of fans he is a top 5 player. At worst top 10. That's a huge accomplishment.

[elementally morale]

Funny story about Becker. Agassi picked up a tell on his serve. Becker used to stick his tongue out when he served, and he would stick it out in the direction he was serving. Agassi noticed this and was able to anticipate his serve for years.

It drove Becker nuts. He even complained to his wife that it was like Agassi was reading his mind. Then one day long after they had retired Agassi finally told him.

I didn't know that.

The matches I loved the most were the ones featuring him and Sampras at the ATP finals indoors. Really epic duels. As for Agassi, he had Becker's number. Most matches I saw went in Andre's favor. It was pretty one-sided after a certain point. I think Agassi played his best tennis against Becker (and Sampras of course but that is a lot more well known.)

Never heard about the tongue thing though. Interestingly, I started to like Agassi in his very late years when he became an underdog. And the speech he gave at his farewell game after defeat (he lost to... well... another Becker) was something I often rewatch.

[Overdrive]

Weve all seen Kobe his whole career or a large portion of it or seen many of his games one way or another... Im now supposed to believe my eyes were deceiving me cause TS% says he was pretty efficient? Sure, he wasnt a net negative by any means, but he was clearly not as efficient as any of the guys I mentioned there.

Didn't you start watching in '11?

Also you're taking these eFG number and say he's inefficient, because he shot 2 to 3 worse than others? That's not even one make or miss a game.

[warriorfan]

rmt is some old woman who doesnt really seem fit for this convo tbh


She doesnt get the finer things of the game at all. Dirk is a testament to that. Hes like an IQ test.

She actually watched Kobe Bryant while you were in some special education class filling out coloring books

I’m sorry she has way more expertise on this subject then some autistic european child who never even watched anything he’s trying to comment about

[warriorfan]

He was definitely bad against Detroit, playing hero ball to the tune of 23ppg on 38% effectively shot them out of the series. Granted, I still think Detroit wins even if they fed Shaq more but I doubt it's a gentlemans sweep. Malone being injured didn't help either, of course....

kobe got shut down by a GOAT defense in legit probability the toughest defensive era. the league had to rewrite the rule book because of them

On the other hand lebron got smoked by the mavericks in a much easier league for offense

[Axe]

But overall, yeah Kobes polarizing nature gets him more inconsistent hate than most.

Like Kawhi for example... nobody hates on Kawhi because he's quiet. I've always repped Kawhi. But if Kobe won with Marc Gasol / Serge Ibaka / Siakam frontcourt... everybody would say he was carried by his big men. Even if he hung ~ 30/5/5 just like Kawhi did.

Shit Siakam had a better Game 1 than any game of Paus career in the 2019 Finals.



And people barely talked about it. If Siakam did that for Kobe we'd never hear the end of it.

Kobe got hate for not beating the stacked Suns as a 7 seed. To get credit he basically would have to win a ring with G-leaguers but even then thered be an excuse.

Kobe got hate because people also saw him as cocky and selfish before. Being too confident only showed how arrogant he is, especially to shaq bt. However, he started maturing a bit from that in his early 30s. Had he learned how to be humble since beginning, he might not have gotten viewed or treated that way.

[1987_Lakers]

kobe got shut down by a GOAT defense in legit probability the toughest defensive era.

Richard Jefferson & Michael Redd shot better against that same Pistons team than Kobe did. Obviously you have to give the Pistons defense some credit for their defense, but I remember watching that series as it happened and some of the tough shots Kobe was taking was flat out embarrassing

[warriorfan]

However, why is it so damn important what the majority thinks? They are wrong on many things, aren't they? Will they change my opinion when it comes to acknowledging talent in the NBA? Not really.

100%


Not trying to attack posters here. it if you look at the group that’s crazed about how bad Kobe supposedly was….

Arbitrary Water
1987 Lakers
RRR3

What do all three of these posters have in common? None of them even BEGAN watching basketball during Kobe’s prime. In turn they have cherry picked statistics to try to do some reverse tea leaf reading to try to figure out what actually happened.

All three of these posters don’t really understand the nuances of the game. It’s basically an autistic copy paste from certain picked categories from basketball reference with the analysis of x > y! Checkmate! No context needed as well.

You have weirdos who have been harping on Kobe’s first Finals where he was 21 and Jalen Rose (who has admit this) stepped under kobe’s foot to injur him on purpose.


I’ve never heard any of these guys acknowledge that even one time. Just keep spamming the raw box while claiming he sucks or whatever.


It’s sad they have turned this into something where they can’t even have an intellectually honest conversation about it. (However unfortunately I suspect that some of these guys literally unable too, it’s not trolling, they just are incapable of doing it.

[warriorfan]

Richard Jefferson & Michael Redd shot better against that same Pistons team than Kobe did. Obviously you have to give the Pistons defense some credit for their defense, but I remember watching that series as it happened and some of the tough shots Kobe was taking was flat out embarrassing

You saying Kobe had to take tough shots vs possibly the best Defense of all time?

Oh ****. This is a groundbreaking revelation.

Let’s move him down to the 50-60 range.

[1987_Lakers]

100%


Not trying to attack posters here. it if you look at the group that’s crazed about how bad Kobe supposedly was….

Arbitrary Water
1987 Lakers
RRR3

What do all three of these posters have in common? None of them even BEGAN watching basketball during Kobe’s prime.

I joined this forum in 2007 and yet I didn't watch Kobe's prime?

Makes sense.

[HoopsNY]

Yes, because Kobe wasn't a great passer and didn't have a bunch of hockey assists and passes that led to FTs for his bigs due to the triangle lol. Phil surely didn't say that KB was the best playmaker he had ever coached (better than Pip and MJ), right?

In 2013 under D'antoni, Kobe made the switch to PG mid-season (he was averaging 29.2 ppg on 57.18%TS through 42 games) with injuries & all and averaged 7.5 assists per game for a 36-game stretch until he tore his achilles.

Yea this is a good point. People forget that 2013 season. I believe the Lakers were 17-25 in those first 42 games and then when Kobe started playing more PG and playmaking, finished 25-11.

It's erroneous to think that he couldn't pass or playmake, as evidenced by how he handled the offense in 2000-02 specifically. Do people think it was Fisher carving up the defense and setting up Shaq?

Also, I think it's disingenuous for some to always take aim at Kobe for the 2000 finals while ignoring LeBron's play in 2007, which was one of the worst performances for an ATG in the finals.

Having said that, Kobe is tough to rank for me. Since I consider peak play the most, I have Wade above him. I'm open to changing that, but it is what it is. My lists are always a mess and constantly changing.

Oh, and I do think LeBron is above Kobe, though not by as wide margin as some would have it.

[1987_Lakers]

You saying Kobe had to take tough shots vs possibly the best Defense of all time?

Oh ****. This is a groundbreaking revelation.

Let’s move him down to the 50-60 range.

He played into Detroit's hands, the Pistons were playing Shaq one on one all series long and instead of feeding him the ball, Kobe went selfish mode like he usually did and shot them out of the series. This was at the height of the Shaq-Kobe feud and Kobe wanted to prove to everyone that it was his team while hurting his team in the process.